Christian Conservative Christian "Independent"

I'm an evangelical Christian, member of the CPC, but presently & unjustly exiled to wander the political wilderness.
All opinions expressed here are solely my own.

Thursday, June 19, 2008

Liberals attacking Mom and Dad, yet again

Bet you the Liberal Red Chamber wanted to keep this one quiet... the Liberal Party of Canada is once again attacking parents, by quietly passing a bill to ban spanking. According to the CBC report, Dion is expected to support the legislation when it reaches the House of Commons. (h/t to Warren)

Once again, the Liberal Party of Canada says that parents simply can't be trusted. We already have appropriate child abuse laws in this country, that effectively deal with those parents who go beyond what is reasonable when punishing their children. From the CBC:
"Routine discipline and using spanking as premeditated punishment wouldn't be allowed.

"No corporal punishment would be allowed, either by an educator, the mother, the father or someone acting for them," Hervieux-Payette said."

Spanking, when done in an appropriate fashon, is NOT child abuse. It can be a very effective tool in the proper raising of a child, when done correctly and in a spirit of love for your child. I too was spanked when I was a kid, but only when I deserved it... and my parents NEVER ONCE left a mark. All through those years, never ONCE, not even for a moment, did I even consider that my parents didn't love me when they did so.

I will say this though, regarding spanking... when things get out of hand, then I fully agree that charges ought to be laid against the parents. However, our child abuse laws already cover those instances quite effectively, in my opinion.

One thing I'll say though... this will be yet another Liberal gift to motivate conservatives to vote, to make sure the Statist and interventionist Liberals don't return to 24 Sussex anytime soon.



  • At Thu Jun 19, 01:28:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Drew Costen said…

    Spanking, when done in an appropriate fashon, is NOT child abuse.

    Yes, it is. If it would be considered assault if done to an adult (which it would be if it was done without consent) then there's no reason why it shouldn't be considered assault if done to a kid. At least an adult can fight back.

    So good for the Liberals.

  • At Thu Jun 19, 02:13:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Why don't you just go home and smack around your children for a while you hate filled wanker.

    What don't you people understand here?

    Your first commenter hit it right on the head. If you can't do this to an adult, then why is it ok to do it to a child?

    Stop beating your children!

  • At Thu Jun 19, 02:16:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Unknown said…

    Christian Conservative, I am with you. This bill is crap!
    Did you notice, the bill somehow passed in the Senate without a vote, even though the Conservatives in Senate had objections and the Liberals themselves are not united on the issue?

  • At Thu Jun 19, 02:17:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Bert said…

    No, it isn't child abuse.
    You cannot compare disciplining a child with disciplining an adult. Kids are still growing and finding out what their limits are. It's up to us as parent to show them what those limits are. Adults ought to know what their limits are and if they cross them, there are laws which are supposed to keep them in check.

  • At Thu Jun 19, 02:29:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Archie said…

    Christian Heretic are you nuts

  • At Thu Jun 19, 02:35:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Re the Christian Heretic:
    In the words of your exhalted leader "You know not hov which you speak"

  • At Thu Jun 19, 02:36:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Liberals would seem to be anti-parent.

    Hope the Harper campaign planner capitalize on this?

    Even Kinsella is asking questions...and THAT can't be good.

  • At Thu Jun 19, 02:43:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I guess Liberals view spanking solely as a sexual behavior. :D

  • At Thu Jun 19, 02:43:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Drew Costen said…

    Christian Heretic are you nuts

    Um, was that a question or a statement?

  • At Thu Jun 19, 02:49:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    So Anon@2:13, are you libelously calling me a child abuser?

    By the way, a word of advice for you... if you're going to make a libelous comment like that, don't do so from a Government of Ontario computer... they have a habit of keeping detailed logs, and all it takes is a phone call.

    I'll be a nice guy and give you twenty-four hours to withdraw your comment. I'll be watching for your visit.

  • At Thu Jun 19, 02:50:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    These 2 commenters have never had kids.The small minded 'smack you kids' comment reveals a lack of parenting experience.And parent's who have murdered their children (as the recent situation in Nova Scotia revealed) are not trying to discipline at the time of the murder.Any 'non-spanking' interference rule would not have prevented the murders.

    Spanking for discipline is out of love.It is not about 'beating' and 'fighting'.

    Parent of 4 spanked adult children,who know they are loved.

  • At Thu Jun 19, 02:59:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Just one more attempt by the Liberals to take over families!Get out of our faces!! How about working with the CPC to go after criminals instead of making criminals out of loving parents!
    -McGuinty bans everything in Ontario, and let's murderers go, and the Lib Senate bans parenting!

    A libertarian conservative

  • At Thu Jun 19, 03:41:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I'm sorry, this is actually one of the few times (very VERY few times) I support government intervention.

    In my personal opinion, striking ANY person, of ANY age, (when not in self-defence) is an assault. We, as individuals, have (or should have) the right not to be assaulted. It's our bodies.

    As far as a "parenting tool" goes, I can't help but think that spanking TEACHES kids to solve their problems with physical means, which is what we should be trying to avoid.

    For the record, I have been spanked, and I felt it was as wrong then, as I do now.

    Mike Wisniewski

  • At Thu Jun 19, 04:49:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    For the sake of discussion you have children?
    As a parent I am continually teaching my children 'problem solving' in many situations...24-7
    The spanking only happenned in shere defiance and with love and respect. It was never about beating. It was about helping the child to know the boundaries of acceptable behaviour.If they don't learn that from mom and dad they won't learn it from society, and the results of that are evidenced daily.

    This is an insult to have government interference in the family home.


  • At Thu Jun 19, 07:07:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "So Anon@2:13, are you libelously calling me a child abuser?"

    No, I shouldn't have. I do apologize to you for any harm I may have caused.

  • At Thu Jun 19, 08:53:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Unknown said…

    Christian Conservative, I also had someone from the government of Ontario drop by my blog and accuse me of beating my kids. I didn't bother to publish their ill-informed crap.

    Mike, consider the following before you applaud this government intervention and decry spanking. The bill is not just about spanking. It's about any form of physical punishment (ie: it would include smacking a child's hand) .
    So, like I mentioned on my own blog:
    If your child is about to touch the hot stove, such a law would make it illegal to smack their hand.
    If your child is about to grab a glass jam jar off the shelf in the grocery store, sending it shattering into a thousand sticky pieces, such a law would make it illegal to smack their hand.
    If your child is about to run across the road into oncoming traffic, such a law would make it illegal to smack their bum. But hey, death is ok, right?
    If your small child is about to put a stone in their mouth, run off a dock into the lake, grab a nail (rusty or otherwise), walk on a balcony rail, eat a fish hook, climb a tractor, shove a pencil up their nose, hurl a teacup, pick up dog poop or a dead animal, stick their finger in a socket, attempt to drink bleach, grab a set mousetrap, bite their sibling, steal someone's toys, toboggan down flight of stairs holding their baby brother on their lap, you, their parent, will not be allowed to smack either their hand or their bum under this law, which was proposed by one Liberal Senator and not voted on.
    And if you are reading that list thinking "But kids don't do those things," it's because you aren't a parent.
    Those of you who are parents, are probably laughing, thinking "So it's not just mine!"

  • At Thu Jun 19, 10:35:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Anon, apology greatfully accepted... I consider the matter dealt with and closed. Thank you for dealing with it so promptly.

    Please feel free to comment again in the future, I enjoy hearing other points of view, but don't appreciate the baseless garbage that gets hurled to and fro in the partisan blogosphere... especially when it comes to the very serious matter of child abuse, which I oppose in any and all forms.

    When I say I support spanking, I've been pretty clear in the past... I support the actions of a loving and gracious parent, who is seeking to properly correct a child, when other means of dealing with the issue have already been undertaken. I DO NOT support parents who take out their anger and frustrations on their children, and who thereby enter into the realm of child abuse. (and we DO have far too much of that these days, I'll freely admit)

    I take the case of the parents in Aylmer a few years back, who had their children removed by the OPP... they were a loving Christian family, who sought only to raise their children in a loving and caring environment. I too was raised in such a home, by loving parents, and I never had reason to question my parents love for me... even though they spanked me when I needed appropriate correction.

    My sister, on the other hand, never needed to be spanked, because all it took for her was a stern look from my mother to correct her behaviour. Again, it was a loving parent who made the wise determination on what their child needed to be well raised.

  • At Thu Jun 19, 11:13:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Thank you for your understanding. My sincere apologies again.

    I didn't take the time to rationally examine the issue. I acted without thinking and for that I am sorry.

    I still do not believe that it is alright to spank a child, but I see your point of view and should have respect it more before I wrote my response.

  • At Fri Jun 20, 08:02:00 a.m. EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    No worries. ;-)

    Again, I consider the matter over and done with.

    We can all learn from one another, and that's one of the things I enjoy most about this little blog... when different people can share different points of view, and while we may not come to an agreement, at least we can understand one another a little better.

  • At Fri Jun 20, 11:52:00 a.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Ruth: granted, no, I don't have kids but I still believe there are non-physical means to discipline children. What are they? I don't know. But since I don't know, I think it would be very VERY unfair to bring children into a situation where I don't know what to do with them.

    As far as all your little scenarios go, I don't doubt for a second that they happen. But why smack? That's what I don't get. There have to be other ways to teach a child that all of the above circumstances are not smart or safe.

    Also, how is a child, at such an influential age, supposed to be wise enough to tell the difference between "parenting" and "abuse"?

    It's a very VERY fine line.

    Mike Wisniewski

  • At Fri Jun 20, 05:15:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Luke Coughey said…

    Does this not seem odd?

    - Take the discipline from the parent then make the parent legally responsible for the actions of the child

    - Force parents to send their kids to day care and public schools because the parents are qualified to raise and teach their own kids

    Instead of removing spanking from the home, lets incorporate it into our justice system. Just like the old days of public hangings, we'll have public spankings. I now I'd watch my speedometer more closely if the penalty was public humiliation and not a fine.

  • At Sun Jun 22, 11:50:00 a.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Yes SIR!

    CRPL. Punishment, SIR!


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