Christian Conservative Christian "Independent"

I'm an evangelical Christian, member of the CPC, but presently & unjustly exiled to wander the political wilderness.
All opinions expressed here are solely my own.

Monday, April 27, 2009

Randy Hillier... just not worth the risk

I had initially been opposed to Randy Hillier winning the leadership before, but after talking to him personally, and with the start of the "official" leadership race, I figured I'd at least give him a chance.

Not anymore... my opposition to his leadership run just went to a whole new level.

There's no way I could ever support someone who supports the American style attitude of allowing beer to be sold on virtually every street corner. We have enough problems with alcohol in this country even with the level of government control and regulation we have in place here in Ontario. This policy, while perhaps popular with a small segment within our own party, is just plain idiotic.

And before anyone blows this post off, I'm not a tee-totaler, just for the record. I just don't think it should be available at your local corner store, where it's tougher to monitor and regulate.

Until our society gets a brain, and rates of drunk driving drop, and people in general become more mature in their alcohol consumption, I'm not going to support any form of lessening in the regulations... on this matter, I'm a fan of "Big Government".

Just for the record... I oppose ANY leadership candidate who supports de-regulation of the LCBO. This one's a deal-breaker for me... one I'd even "cross the floor" on. So just don't go there.

h/t to Hugh MacIntyre of Freedom is My Nationality for this one (though he supports the idea)



  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 03:02:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Matt said…

    Let me play Devil's Advocate. Cigarette's are sold in corner stores. Why can it be subjected to lesser regulations than alcohol?

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 03:02:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Cool Blue said…

    FYI: This is a long time policy of the OPC, ever since the Harris years.

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 03:15:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "Until our society gets a brain"

    Sometimes, the only way to learn (get a brain) is the hard way.

    Big government disallows citizens the ability to test their own limits.

    Without going into too much detail, I can tell you I have tested my own limits and know where they are.

    I can also tell you, I gave to bearing to the laws of the land while testing those limits.

    If I can decide for myself, what works and what doesn't for my life without governemnt intervention, why can't everyone else.

    And, more importantly, why should my tax dollars be put toward regulation that I don't agree is necessary

    Mike Wisniewski

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 03:16:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Hoarfrost said…

    Don't forget Hillier is the only one who has come out for abolishing the HRC's. Those organisations are persecuting christians like you and others.

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 03:25:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Thats a fair comment, but, I'd like to see Quebec's drunk driving rate compared to Ontario's before I made that statement. I do not like the idea of beer and wine being sold in corner stores because the bulk of the stores dont want to sell it but all it takes are a few stores to do it and then the rest will have to. Who in their right mind would want to stock and sell beer or wine, have their insurance go up, and, in less then a year have some kind of drunken idiot rob makes no sense Randy. billg

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 03:26:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Simeon (Sam) George Drakich said…

    The party voted to dismantle both the LCBO and the Beer Stores.
    The policies by both agencies are discriminatory against small and local business.

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 03:35:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Hoarfrost, I guess then no one can accuse me of only looking out for my own interests. ;-)

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 03:35:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger AEK said…

    "There's no way I could ever support someone who supports the American style attitude of allowing beer to be sold on virtually every street corner."Don't you mean 'Quebec style attitude of allowing beer to be sold on virtually every street corner'??

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 03:38:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    AEK, same goes I guess.

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 03:52:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Luca Manfredi said…

    As an avid beer lover, I'm at odds with you. Regulation and monopoly causes lessening choice and quality, debilitating the development of a culture of drinking for taste's sake.

    The LCBO, being big and governmental, is therefore a dumb organization and unresponsive to the needs of consumers. As it can't be everywhere, people will have to drive from smaller towns to get their beer, possibly after having already downed the first round.


  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 03:53:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Are you mad?

    In NL and Quebec you can buy beer at the corner store, and we have little problems from that. First of all the local ability of buying your liquor within walking distance is a major positive, and will bring a big boost in revenue to your local entrepreneurs.

    Talking to my local corner store they would love to be able to sell beer, because that would be a big boost to their revenue, and they can order beer specific for their customers.

    Competition and choice is a win win. As for drunk driving and under age drinking, well that is where tough enforceable laws come in. Beer must NOT be sold to minors, and drunk driving must be criminally enforced. So I don't know where you getting off with, because Hillier is the only leader that is coming out with great conservative and Liberty policy that even defends the rights of privacy to church and religion.

    So I suggest that you relook at the leaders, because Hillier is probably the best common sense leader out there.

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 03:55:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Perhaps it is a Northern Ontario phenomenon...but we have the booze selling right next to the milk and bread in many of our mom and pop convenient stores.The nearest LCBO is only 4 kms. away.
    We ae quite used to it.
    Actually I'm more annoyed waiting in line behind the 10 minute lottery sales.


  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 04:24:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Anon @ 4:05PM, I'll refer you to Commandment #3...
    "You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain, for the LORD will not hold him guiltless who takes his name in vain."

    Did you seriously think I was going to post your comment? Mental note, check the name of this blog, then try again.

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 04:29:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Bluetech: You can drive 30 minutes south and west of Ottawa and find corner stores that sell beer and wine, but they operate under the LCBO and The Beer store.

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 04:32:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger David Graham - said…

    I think our problem with alcohol is a lot deeper than where you can buy it.

    Quebec, for one, does allow beer to be sold pretty much anywhere with a fridge and it seems to me that the associated problems there are far fewer than here. What would really do wonders for alcohol rules is lowering the drinking age to 16 and raising the driving age to 18, as it works in much of Europe. It needs to become less of a forbidden fruit, and people need a chance to sober up before they get behind the wheel.

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 04:36:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger ian said…

    Many years ago I moved from Manitoba with its LCCs to Alberta which has non government liquor stores that sell product.I like the easier access.With the drink driving laws I actually drink less than I used to so it doesn;t matter that much to me although I wonder what the stats are for each province re DUI

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 05:07:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The system appears to be fine in both Newfoundland and Labrador and Quebec. After living in those places, it seems ridiculous that you can only buy beer at a government-run liquor store.

    It is is legal to buy it, why does it matter where?

    JC Kelan

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 05:08:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous potato said…

    The Conservative thing to do would be to punish the irresponsible rather than to punish everyone for a perceived problem which, empirically, doesn't exist. That's like being guilty until proven innocent.

    The vast majority of the population are responsible, law-abiding adults. They are entitled to their freedom. Those who abuse it are the ones who should be punished.

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 05:21:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Brian said…


    I will admit to at first being very much opposed to your POV on this topic. However, the more I thought about it, the more I'm okay with how things are. I've been (many times) to the States and always find it a novelty that I can buy my beer at the local Walgreen's/corner store/gas station. I thought, "hey, why not here??". But while I may not be as opposed to it as you are, your points are valid ones and made me think. Is there really anything wrong with the way it is done now? Would it be more convienent for me to walk to the store 2 minutes up my street to buy a 6 pack, of course...but my bank account and my liver think its not bad that I have to make the trip to the Beer Store or the LCBO. It would be very interesting to see the drunk driving rates in Quebec & the U.S, but I don't think its relavant. 1 drunk driving death is too much, no matter where alcohol is sold. So your level headed arguement has convinced me that maybe the corner store thing should stay a U.S./Quebec thing. I think in today's world, there are much bigger concerns to be tackled then where alcohol is sold.

    Brian Bailey

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 07:52:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Luca Manfredi said…

    People get drunk in pubs and drive home. Allowing broader sales of the beverage would eliminate the need to drive, allowing those who would get tanked anyway to do so in the safety (and isolation) of their own home.

    Restrictive laws in the US haven't stopped absolute debauchery at frat parties. So if my supply be limited, my right to brew be unhindered.


  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 08:10:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Joanne (True Blue) said…

    The thing that bothers me about the LCBO etc. is that they're run by big unions. The small craft brewers & wineries have trouble getting in.


  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 09:52:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Bec said…

    It doesn't have to be corner stores, it can be privately owned small business operators. They are still regulated but not staffed and paid for by the tax payers of Ontario.

    People that are inclined to be irresponsible will do it regardless of how they obtain their 'substance of choice'.

    I think the choices in Ontario LCB are pathetic so therefore I wonder, how much revenue and tax income is lost by people shopping across provincial borders.
    I know my brother, orders all of his wine from an Alberta broker. They have freedom to choose. Ontario has some of the finest vineyards in the world and the worst selections in their stores.

    I don't see this as about alcohol consumption but more about government control. The more control, government has on it's citizens, the more they will eventually act out, in some way, shape or form.

  • At Mon. Apr. 27, 10:56:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Fair enough, just don't call yourself a conservative -- 'cause you're not, by definition.

  • At Tue. Apr. 28, 08:49:00 a.m. EDT, Blogger Guelph First said…

    It’s all about government making a profit. You can be sure if the LCBO was losing money, it would have been privatized a long time ago.

    Privatize it all.

    We are all so caught up in this stuff. In Europe you can drink in public, on the street, wherever, a much more relaxed attitude about life. A healthier attitude IMHO.

  • At Tue. Apr. 28, 09:12:00 a.m. EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Bec, I wouldn't so strongly oppose your proposition... I support maintaining the regulation of alchohol, but I can see how your method would provide greater choice, while maintaining control.

  • At Tue. Apr. 28, 09:28:00 a.m. EDT, Anonymous kirby said…

    I agree with Anonymous 10:56...

    I cannot understand how one can, with intellectual honesty, call themselves conservative, while at the same time supporting a government mandated monopoly of distribution networks.

    All this does is hurt Canadian businesses. For a full discussion on that, read Why Mexicans Don't Drink Molson, by Andrea Mandel-Campbell.

    If you think the consumption of alcohol is the problem, then honustly address THAT problem. Having the government control the distrubution of the product makes the use of the product no safer.

    The LCBO and beer stores are about one thing, government control, and goverment revenues, not about controlling how liquor is consumed...

    My Prediction: all four candidates will support this policy...

  • At Tue. Apr. 28, 09:29:00 a.m. EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    So Anon@10:56, who died and made you the judge of "conservatism"?

    Let's see... I'm a fiscal conservative, advocate of medium-sized-government, a so-con, opponent of Liberal/Trudeau's "statist" ideology... but what I'm NOT, is a Libertarian.

    Perhaps that's where you're confused, but I won't hold that against you, that's where quite a few "conservatives" get confused... they assume "conservatism" and "Libertarianism" are one and the same.

    Heads up... THEY'RE NOT.

  • At Tue. Apr. 28, 11:18:00 a.m. EDT, Anonymous RedTory2009 said…

    Christian Conservative: I think we need a post on the proposed HST that will raise taxes on everything from home heating fuel to hair cuts to train fares to vitamins, don't you? I applaud you taking such a principled stance on the LCBO issue, but before Randy Hillier brought this up, no one was worried about it. In this leadership race, I believe we need to stay focused on one objective: Getting McGuinty's tax & spend government out of office.

    What do you think of Tim Hudak (MPP for Niagara West-Glanbrook)? As far as I can tell, he's the leadership candidate with the strongest stance against this thinly veiled tax grab, which is why he has my vote at this point in the race.

  • At Tue. Apr. 28, 12:39:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    And what's wrong with libertarians, CC? ;)

    Mike Wisniewski

  • At Tue. Apr. 28, 01:24:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Darryl said…

    This is unfortunately where social Conservatives cross with Libertarians.

    For me personally, I support Mr. Hillier's policy and do not support a monopoly with the LCBO or Beer Store. I also do not support prohibition. I also believe the age should be dropped to 18. If you can vote and serve our country, you should be able to have a beer. Unfortunately Randy has not gone far enough.

    CC I acknowledge social problems with alcohol and drunk driving and do not want to encourage underage drinking. At the same time, I am not sure a monopoly with the beer store or the LCBO does much to reduce those problems. I support small business, individual freedoms and free market solutions.

  • At Tue. Apr. 28, 04:19:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I'll take you one further, Darryl.

    Should the government even be in the business of setting a legal drinking age?

    I'm not convinced it should be

    Mike Wisniewski

  • At Tue. Apr. 28, 04:30:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Ray K. said…

    Unfortunately there are statists across pretty much all party lines.

  • At Tue. Apr. 28, 04:34:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "Libertarianism is at the very heart of conservatism." - Ronald Reagan

    Opposing a free market and, conversely, supporting a government monopoly on the sale of consumer goods is antithetical to conservatism.

    btw - the LCBO/Beer Store monopoly is as "statist" as it gets.

  • At Tue. Apr. 28, 05:00:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    thank you anon@4:34

    well said

    Mike Wisniewski

  • At Tue. Apr. 28, 07:24:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Darryl said…


    There are several issues like having a drinking age/last call, the war on drugs, prostitution and gambling where you could take Libertarianism to the next level.

    There are some political realities however and I believe that is why Hillier stopped at the LCBO and focused on beer and wine only. As a Libertarian similar to Ron Paul, I hear your point of view on the drinking age. By the same token, promising to remove it is not likely the key platform plank to victory in either the PC leadership or the general election.

    I appreciate CC making this post as I think the discussion on individual freedoms vs. social Conservatism is an important debate among Conservatives. I also appreciate the Reagan quote.

    In the US, I like Ron Paul because he balances a 100% pro-life record, with fiscal Conservatism and true Liberatarian values on individual freedoms and foreign policy. Republicans would be well served by his Campaign for Liberty.

    As for Hillier, I give him credit for at least putting some policies forward that can be debated among party members who are for or against the issue. Worst case scenario would be electing someone without knowing what they stand for only to be surprised later. I would like to see the other three start releasing firm policy as I expect will happen over the next few weeks.

  • At Wed. Apr. 29, 08:48:00 a.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    well said Darryl

    Mike Wisniewski


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