Christian Conservative Christian "Independent"

I'm an evangelical Christian, member of the CPC, but presently & unjustly exiled to wander the political wilderness.
All opinions expressed here are solely my own.

Friday, November 28, 2008

Welcome to the "USSR"

"The Union of Separatists and Socialists against the Right"
Can't take credit for that one, but welcome to reality.

In a move unprecidented in Canadian history, the Opposition plans on taking over the Government, and ousting our democraticly elected Prime Minister, Stephen Harper.

Canadians voted for him to be the steady hand at the wheel in these uncertain economic times... now the sore losers are planning to wrest the wheel out of his hands while the car is in motion.

Problem is, when you do that, you most often end up in the ditch.

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  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 03:14:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The thing that disappoints me is that the takeover talk has takenover from the political party subsidy talk.

    Mike Wisniewski

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 03:48:00 p.m. EST, Blogger KC said…

    Canadians voted for him to be the steady hand at the wheel in these uncertain economic times... now the sore losers are planning to wrest the wheel out of his hands while the car is in motion.

    38% of voters gave Harper less than 47% of the seats in the house. Until he has 50%+1 a coalition was always possible. Those "sore losers" have 53% of the seats, and depends on them to have the confidence to govern.

    Harper proved yesterday that he would prefer to continue to pretend that he has a majority, and be antagonistic towards the other parties. In this economic climate that kind of behaviour is unacceptable.

    Canadians denied Harper a majority mandate on October 15th. Harper was given the opportunity to govern with minority and he chose not to. HARPER was the one who poisoned Parliament, which is a real shame.

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 03:50:00 p.m. EST, Blogger Richard said…

    Can you imagine what the MSM and the Canadian left would be saying if the Conservatives attempted a coup when they were in opposition? It would virtually destroy them forever.

    Why the silence now? And during an economic downturn? If this doesn't destroy the Liberals (who are willing to jump into bed with separatists) nothing will.

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 03:52:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I heard if the government falls, Dion will be ousted and Ignatieff will be made leader of the Liberal party. Then he'll be made leader of Canada once the liberals and NDP form a coalition with an outside pledge of support from the Bloc.

    And the Liberals say the Conservatives are a front to democracy? The Liberal/NDP coalition will be 29 seats short of the Conservatives with an unelected party leader being made an unelected Prime Minister. All without an election. Where are the palm trees and beaches cause this must be Cuba.

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 03:54:00 p.m. EST, Blogger Richard said…


    So let me get this straight -- the people vote in a leader, who proposes an economic plan and includes removing party subsidies, the opposition doesn't like it. So, instead of acting like an opposition, debating alternatives etc., they prefer to overtake the government through a coup, aided and abbetted by separatists who WANT TO DESTROY the country.

    And Steven Harper is being poisonous? Wow, who knew?

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 04:02:00 p.m. EST, Blogger Marc Bernard said…

    A steady hand? Maybe enough Canadians believed the lies they were fed... Can't run from it now guys.

    September 15, 2008: "My own belief is if we were going to have some kind of big crash or recession, we probably would have had it by now." - Prime Minister Stephen Harper

    October 8, 2008: "We're sure not going to run a deficit... We will maintain a surplus in Canada and we will continue to pay down debt. We are a relative rock of stability." - Jim Flaherty

    October 19, 2008: "We're on track for a modest surplus in this fiscal year" - Jim Flaherty

    October 25, 2008: "We're in for rough times" - Jim Flaherty

    November 25, 2008: Canada's economy entering deep recession — OECD

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 04:04:00 p.m. EST, Blogger wilson said…

    ''Those "sore losers" have 53% of the seats''

    That would be relevant IF Duceppe campaigned in Canada, but he doesn't.
    Duceppe represents less than 40% of Quebecers ONLY.
    You are diluting the REAL numbers with the Bloc.
    Duceppe said "Harper won a majority in the ROC, I won a majority in Quebec"

    So start over KC.

    PMSHs Conservatives won 57% of the seats in the ROC.
    including 48% of the seats in Ontario,
    and 72 out of 95 seats in the Western 4 + 3 Territories (76%)

    What do you predict happening in the West,
    KC, if the Liberals SEIZED government from an elected Conservative government?

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 04:12:00 p.m. EST, Blogger Jerry Prager said…

    You never believed us when we said that 62% of the electorate did not vote for your guy. The Charter of Rights and Freedoms makes us more important than the House and Conservatives don't believe it and that's how far out of touch your movement is with Canadian realities.
    Funny, the code I filled in to make this comment that you won't post is speaking to me in tongues because it says "finesh"

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 04:25:00 p.m. EST, Blogger KC said…

    Richard - You can throw out the loaded expression "voted in a leader" all you want but it is even less than a half truth. 38% of Canadians who voted gave the Conservatives less than 47% of the seats. Until he reaches that magical 50%+1 he doesnt have an indivisible claim on being "voted in as leader". It is convention that the party with a plurality gets first crack at governing. But coalitions can and do happen in parliamentary systems and that is no more or less democratic then our system where a party with a plurality--not a majority--gets to rule.

    The opposition didnt ask for Harper to tack on the cuts to the political party subsidies but he did anyway. He was provocative and could have avoided this whole situation.

    Wilson - What the hell does Duceppe not campaigning in the ROC have to do with anything? The fact is he has 49 (I think) seats in the House. If you want to talk about the disconnect between his share of the popular vote and his seat count we have to talk about the fact that Harper got 47% of the seats with 38% of the vote. Thats not really a debate I feel like getting into but if you want to you have to concede that Harper has even less legitimacy than his seat count suggests.

    Like it or not, until this country breaks up or people entirely vacate that large province we know as "Quebec" it has a say in our political institutions. A lot of the policy and ideology that emerges from that province pisses me off but it still has a say.

    The argument that Harper won a majority in the ROC is TOTALLY irrelevant. You need to win a majority across the country including Quebec. Harper didnt do that.

    I wont speculate what the west will do if a coalition emerges. Thats up to the west.

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 04:58:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Anonymous said…


    I wonder what your thoughts are on Chretiens majorities with 38% of the popular vote.

    Oh yeah, the Liberals play by their own rules right?

    I hope to God the Liberals crawl into bed with the NDP and the seperatists. It will make the Liberals last election results look like a huge electoral victory.

    Bye bye Liberal party and good riddance.

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 05:08:00 p.m. EST, Blogger Richard said…


    You'll still have to justify the fact that the country did not vote for Dion either, yet he may emerge as this democracy to you? Instead of blaming Harper, who have a right to govern, you should be asking questions of the opposition, who are acting petty and childish over the party subsidies issue.


    "You never believed us when we said that 62% of the electorate did not vote for your guy"

    How about you remove some percentage points for the Bloc, they don't count; and the fact that YOUR GUY Dion lost 20 Canadians didn't vote for him either.

    Honestly, do you believe the stuff you write?

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 05:31:00 p.m. EST, Blogger kursk said…

    62% of those people did not vote as one entity.Some voted for one party, some for another.

    I we had a two party system, perhaps that number would mean something.We don't, so the party garnering the greatest portion of the available votes wins the right to govern.

    Look at the individual numbers for the opposition parties.Pretty dire, and not one (on their own) could get the support of enough Canadians to form a govt.

    In fact, even put together, the number of seats won by the two main opposition parties are not enough to govern.

    What do you suppose the end result will be for those parties foolish enough to let the Bloc hold the balance of power..?

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 06:22:00 p.m. EST, Blogger KC said…

    Anon - I didnt like them. We desperately need some electoral reform in this country. But Chretien at least had 50%+1 of the seats in the house which is more that can be said for Harper.

    I've talked to lots of "swing voters" who are far more pissed that Harper would play games at a time like this than are pissed off at the prospect of the Liberals and NDP cooperating with the Bloc. Eventually we'll see who emerges the winner in all this.

    Richard - Acting petty and childish? Tell me again which party decided to go for its opponents jugular and raise an issue that isnt particularly pressing and they hadnt campaigned on at a time when the country desperately needs leadership? Lets be clear on this: The CONSERVATIVES manufactured a crisis by raising the issue of party subsidies at a time when we already have a crisis.

    Harper has no "right" to govern. A plurality doesnt give anyone a "right" to govern. He has 47% of the seats. Imagine a shareholder with 47% of the shares that he has the "right" to run a company any way he pleases when the other 53% think otherwise. A coalition with a majority has more legitimacy than singly party with a plurality but no majority.

    I think the guy with 26% of the vote with the support of 53% of our elected representatives has just as much if not more right to govern than the guy with 38% (not that much more) and the support of 47% of our elected representatives.

    Kursk - No those 62% didnt vote for one entity but they voted for members of parliament who have decided that they may need to cooperate to fill a void in leadership created by the Prime Minister's partisanship.

    NO one entity has enough support to govern on its own.

    I havent felt inclined to bash the Prime Minister in a long time but he is the one who blew it here.

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 07:19:00 p.m. EST, Blogger James Bow said…

    Say what you like, but if this coalition pulls it off, they end up speaking for over 60% of voting Canadians.

    Nice to have a government represent the majority of the people, for once.

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 07:30:00 p.m. EST, Blogger James Bow said…

    Don't forget that Canada doesn't elect governments, it elects parliamentarians. Nobody casts a direct vote for prime minister, except for the 308 members of parliament that we elect to represent our views.

    And, last time I checked, Stephen Harper could not count on the support of the majority of the members of parliament in this House.

    It is absolutely within the realm of legality, constitutionality and even political ethics for the majority of the MPs that we elected to decide that a minority of MPs aren't governing as well or as inclusively as they should, and thus vote to change the leader of this parliament.

    Let's not frame this as a coup, because it isn't. Let's not frame this as thwarting the democratic will of Canadians, because the MPs aren't. Instead, let the pieces fall where they may, and take your vote of confidence like a man, shall we?

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 09:16:00 p.m. EST, Blogger wilson said…

    It's a coup, if Dion is 'removed' as Lib leader and his replacement is not voted in by the majority of MPs in the house.

  • At Fri. Nov. 28, 10:56:00 p.m. EST, Blogger KEvron said…

    "the country did not vote for Dion either"

    (ignoring, for the moment, that your country does not directly elect its pm) then, by your logic, neither should assume the position, yet you would have harper do so.


  • At Sat. Nov. 29, 08:51:00 a.m. EST, Blogger M@ said…

    Can you imagine what the MSM and the Canadian left would be saying if the Conservatives attempted a coup when they were in opposition? It would virtually destroy them forever.

    You have a very short memory. May 10, 2005, the Conservatives attempted just such a coup. How pissed off were you back then?

  • At Sat. Nov. 29, 10:42:00 a.m. EST, Blogger Ti-Guy said…

    You Conservatives have to abandon questionng the legality of this move and describing it as some sort of coup. Even Harper doesn't believe that:

    Harper's letter to the Governor General of September 9, 2004

    As leaders of the opposition parties, we are well aware that, given the Liberal minority government, you could be asked by the Prime Minister to dissolve the 38th Parliament at any time should the House of Commons fail to support some part of the government’s program. We respectfully point out that the opposition parties, who together constitute a majority in the House, have been in close consultation. We believe that, should a request for dissolution arise this should give you cause, as constitutional practice has determined, to consult the opposition leaders and consider all of your options before exercising your constitutional authority. Your attention to this matter is appreciated.

    From a letter to then-Governor General Adrienne Clarkson signed by all three opposition leaders: Gilles Duceppe, Jack Layton and Stephen Harper (September 9, 2004)

  • At Sat. Nov. 29, 12:14:00 p.m. EST, Blogger James Bow said…

    It's a coup, if Dion is 'removed' as Lib leader and his replacement is not voted in by the majority of MPs in the house.

    What, like the time when Paul Martin took over from Jean Chretien? Or Kim Campbell took over from Brian Mulroney? Or, to use a minority government situation, Pierre Trudeau took over from Lester Pearson?

    It is not a coup.


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