My view on the SQ posing as protesters
Now that the Quebec police have come out and admitted their men were there posing as protesters, I think the whole way everything went down actually makes more sense... at least to me. All you have to do is just think about it logically for a minute...
Various protests in recent years have gotten violent, and its sometimes hard for police to control the situation, get accurate intel, and determine who should be charged and such after the fact. So, it makes sense to have your own men amongst the crowd.
However, a kink was thrown into the works this time... the union folks who decided to show up and form their own buffer line, seperating the police and the protesters. By setting up their own buffer line (with good intent I think), they were cutting off the officers from their own lines! Of COURSE, when your in a hostile situation, you're going to want to keep within eyes and arms reach of your collegues! However, these union guys were continually forcing the officers back, away from the positions they had taken up at the front of the protest line, nearest to the police.
It's my view that the union folks did help in preventing any violence... and cudos to them for that. However, I disagree with the union accusing the officers of trying to incite a riot. Like I said, from the video, it looks to me like they wanted to keep within arms length of the police line, at the front of the protesters line... a line that was being pushed further back by the union folks.
As for the cop who was holding a rock... perhaps in his mind, it was just a prop to help him blend in. (so long as he was only copying what he saw others doing, and not starting the trend amongst the protesters)
Bottom line is, it all makes logical sense to me. I haven't seen any video that leads me to believe the cops were trying to incite anything. Of course, I'm always more likely to give the legitimate authorities the benefit of the doubt when it comes to accusations against them made by union and protester types, but that's just me. ;-)
Alright Canadian Cynic... have at me.
Various protests in recent years have gotten violent, and its sometimes hard for police to control the situation, get accurate intel, and determine who should be charged and such after the fact. So, it makes sense to have your own men amongst the crowd.
However, a kink was thrown into the works this time... the union folks who decided to show up and form their own buffer line, seperating the police and the protesters. By setting up their own buffer line (with good intent I think), they were cutting off the officers from their own lines! Of COURSE, when your in a hostile situation, you're going to want to keep within eyes and arms reach of your collegues! However, these union guys were continually forcing the officers back, away from the positions they had taken up at the front of the protest line, nearest to the police.
It's my view that the union folks did help in preventing any violence... and cudos to them for that. However, I disagree with the union accusing the officers of trying to incite a riot. Like I said, from the video, it looks to me like they wanted to keep within arms length of the police line, at the front of the protesters line... a line that was being pushed further back by the union folks.
As for the cop who was holding a rock... perhaps in his mind, it was just a prop to help him blend in. (so long as he was only copying what he saw others doing, and not starting the trend amongst the protesters)
Bottom line is, it all makes logical sense to me. I haven't seen any video that leads me to believe the cops were trying to incite anything. Of course, I'm always more likely to give the legitimate authorities the benefit of the doubt when it comes to accusations against them made by union and protester types, but that's just me. ;-)
Alright Canadian Cynic... have at me.
posted by Christian Conservative @ 8:55 p.m.
22 Comments:
At Sat Aug 25, 10:17:00 p.m. EDT,
Drew Costen said…
Of course, I'm always more likely to give the legitimate authorities the benefit of the doubt when it comes to accusations against them made by union and protester types, but that's just me.
It might be. I rarely trust those with power and I generally automatically assume that they are always guilty of something negative, and when it comes to cops I always assume the worst (which might be strange considering I've never done anything illegal that I can think of, nor do I intend to. Probably something to do with the way my parents treated me when I was younger, causing me to distrust authority figures in general).
At Sat Aug 25, 11:33:00 p.m. EDT,
Christian Conservative said…
Yea, in general, I still trust authority figures... even after I got the various traffic tickets. ;-)
At Sun Aug 26, 08:03:00 a.m. EDT,
Anonymous said…
I think your scenario is about right. Why wouldn't police have a presence at a potentially explosive protest with international implications? In fact, if they weren't there (and being in full uniform simply makes them a target), they'd be neglecting their duty.
These days, being an authority figure usually means you're damned if you do, and damned if you don't.
The irony is that it seems the three police officers were "outed" because the DIDN'T get violent. The rocks they were holding DIDN'T get thrown, which I guess seemed odd to other more rowdy protesters.
I watched Coles, Barlow, and another labour leader's press conference the night of the incident on C-PAC, where they made all sorts of hypothetical allegations. Maude Barlow (Council of Canadians: Oh yeah? She doesn't speak for this Canadian...) kept saying IF the officers HAD DONE such and such, there COULD HAVE or probably WOULD HAVE been violence and bloodshed. What a dupe. 'Talk about incitement. These guys all stammered and stuttered and showed themselves to be the grandstanders that, IMHO, they are.
There's something really distasteful about supposedly mature adults aiding and abetting what looked to be a motley crew of hardened (and professional?) protesters. Apparently, that's another reason the police were outed: All of the protesters knew each other (how likely is this if it was a genuine protest?) and the police officers, despite their disguises, stuck out like sore thumbs... Hmmmm...
I like to give authority figures the benefit of the doubt. God knows, they need it if the growing number of entitled, adolescent-behaving yahoos populating our public spaces are to be kept in check, in order to protect the rest of us.
At Sun Aug 26, 01:51:00 p.m. EDT,
zolton said…
Yeah those protesters looked like they were gonna get violent (those grandmothers N such)
Stop drinking the koolaid!
"The irony is that it seems the three police officers were "outed" because the DIDN'T get violent. The rocks they were holding DIDN'T get thrown, which I guess seemed odd to other more rowdy protesters". That is bullshit!"
Stock well day is a lier those protesters were not violent at all.
You're creating wild scenarios in you're head to justify (in my opinion a treasonous act!) On the part of the Quebec's police department.
Yeah Robin hood and his counterpart that's why they knew that those guys were cops!
Or left wingers in principal try to never attempt to legitimize violence(We don't want to become like you!)
Like honestly what planet are you guys on? DO you have mental problems or something?
Some days you talk about police state and the restrictions of freedom being a bad thing then you get bed with the fascists as HQ tells you too. Pah-thetic!
Are you a rational individual? or are you a mouthpiece/functioning arm to a system void of morals and intelligence?
Whats the objective of a police officer? To protect and serve!
Not to protect and serve rich people from out of the country.
Disgusting!
At Sun Aug 26, 01:52:00 p.m. EDT,
zolton said…
For being a Christian you seem to justify and progress allot of evil.
Maybe sometime during the last 100 years the devil infiltrated your congregation.
At Sun Aug 26, 06:18:00 p.m. EDT,
Christian Conservative said…
"Yeah those protesters looked like they were gonna get violent (those grandmothers N such) Stop drinking the koolaid!
[sigh] zolton, you're thinking of the gang that were with the union types, not the professional activist protesters the cops were trying to blend in with... you know, the ones that DID riot the previous day? The types that continually cause havoc and destruction in the name of "democracy"... the bunch that don't seem to want to do anything else in life but fight "the man".
Sorry, I just don't see any vast conspiriacy underfoot...
Unless of course you count the coming One World Order that the anti-Christ will attempt to implement shortly before Christ's impending and glorious return to earth... the Glorious return during which Christ will establish His earthly kingdom, to be administered from His capital of Jerusalem. ;-)
At Sun Aug 26, 07:54:00 p.m. EDT,
Anonymous said…
We all know that in canada it's a no-win situation for any Police force .
The RCMP was blamed for the Air India slaughter of 240 Canadians among 320 passengers on a 747 , while the actual murderers were Sikhs who conspired to plant bombs on 3 Planes leaving from canada it was the RCMP's fault for not acting soon enough before the Sikh's could put the bombs on the planes .
The we had the 9/11 slaughter which was balmed on the weak Immigration system in the USA and even though Clinton ignored 3 chances to nab Osama , it was Bush who is now said to be behind it and allowed the Massad to plot 9/11 so the USA can invade iraq for the Oil.
Then canada had two interesting cases , first we had the RCMP attempt to remove 26 Illegals that were being harboured and protected by people right here in canada , and later on a group of punks lead by a older male were rounded-up just prior to a possible plan to bomb Toronto and slaughter civilians.
Politicians should define what the function is for the Police and Court systems so we all know exactly what is and isn't tolerated in canada.
Lately we seem to absolve certain minority groups from crimes because it's unfair to expect them to adjust to Canada's Moral standards , and this puts the Police in a no-win spot .
We also tolerate Politicians that steal tax money to fund their Election to stay in power and little gets done to stop it or Charge them as we would be for a lesser crime .
Canadians were screwed out of $10 million dollars because a Syrian draft-dodger tried to enter the USA at JFK airport by himself
just after 9/11 and had at one point a Home near the Boston Airport where 2 planes were hijacked from.
Maher Arar was denied entry to the USA and the Airline he deplaned from in Tunisia refused to take him back because of his wifes ties to the Muslim Brotherhood and a fear that the Arar's fled canada to claim refugee status in Tunisia after he refused to help the RCMP expose a Terror cell in Ottawa , Arar was held legally under the U.N. rules for Nations protecting themselves from non-citizens or tourists and sadly it was only Jordan that would take him in to unite with his family and fly to Canada directly.
Jordan allowed arab kidnappers to grab Arar and torture him as Arar himself states on his website , and then they drove him to his homeland of Syria to face Charges of desertion in a Military Court.
When Arar's lawyers failed on a lawsuit against Jordan in November of 2003 it was CAIR and the NDP that then went after Canadian Taxpayers by "Alleging" the RCMP was behind Arar being deported to Syria for Torture to make a false confession.
Justice O'Connor's report stated that it was unlikey that US Government relied solely on information from canada to remove Maher Arar to Jordan , and O'Connor only said that there was no solid evidence to prove the Arar's had ties to Terrorism or terror groups.
This is a Legal statement that neither absolves Maher nor does it convict him of anything, the Inquiry was not a trial and Maher never took the stand to perger himself.
So keep in mind that when someone gets hurt it's normal for the Lawyers to rush in and blame the Police for not preventing it , but when they prevent a possible harm the same lawyers rush in to blame the Police for acting to soon and assuming a guilt .
Hopefully this recent protest fiasco will prompt a ban on masks during rallies so we can see all the real hoodlums.
At Mon Aug 27, 12:52:00 p.m. EDT,
Brian in Calgary said…
Hopefully this recent protest fiasco will prompt a ban on masks during rallies so we can see all the real hoodlums.
I agree, anonymous. However, expect an cry of outrage from the political hemophiliacs in reponse to this idea.
At Mon Aug 27, 04:13:00 p.m. EDT,
zolton said…
Get a clue
At Mon Aug 27, 10:25:00 p.m. EDT,
Anonymous said…
I wonder what your brethren in Waco think? http://bsalert.com/news/1990/Bill_Nye_Bood_In_Texas_For_Saying_The_Moon_Reflects_The_Sun.html
Oh, wait a minute, WHO CARES. They're clearly crazy, and so are you.
Have a nice day.
At Tue Aug 28, 12:35:00 a.m. EDT,
Anonymous said…
1984 is at hand....Police STATE ..Martial LAW. Now the Police instigate the always FALSE Threat so they can come in and solve the problem.
Classic! Its been done time and time again. WAKE UP PEOPLE!
At Wed Aug 29, 01:55:00 a.m. EDT,
zolton said…
What are the police?
A gang for the wealthy!
This protest shows thats the role of the police is not to protect and serve the people that make up the democracy, but to serve in the interests of
business.
Shame on Stock well Day for attempting to manipulate the story, by saying that the demonstrators were able to notice the three men becuase they were "NOT" acting violently.
What a load of B.S
Lefties hate using violence, thats what separates us from right wingers. LoL
At Wed Aug 29, 09:32:00 a.m. EDT,
Christian Conservative said…
"Lefties hate using violence"
I just shake my head zolton, you really have no idea what you're talking about.
The extreme left will resort to violence anytime it suits their ends, end of story, full stop. What do you call throwing rocks at the police? What do you call using water guns filled with bleach and urine? I'd call those acts of violence, wouldn't you?
Try talking to some of the cops that have actually been on the front lines, instead of swallowing all the "peace and non-violence" garbage that the extreme leftists spout online for a change.
The extreme left will stoop to any means necessary to gain their objectives... to fight "capitalism" in any form, regardless of who they hurt in the process.
I'm talking about all the innocent persons who have had their lives disrupted or who have had property damaged thanks to the professional protesters who live and DON'T work amongst us, who are a drain off the system living off the "state".
And before you try to state otherwise, try going downtown in any major Ontario city... take a look at all the youth who are sitting around, doing nothing all day, living off "the man" they claim to hate, while more than happy to get involved in any protest or riot they hear about. My town is full of them... and you have no idea how much I have to fight the urge to tell them to "get a job".
Then again, most of them can't... not because they couldn't if they sorted their lives out and actually tried, but because they refuse to smarten up, get their education, and buckle down like the rest of us and work for their keep... they expect the state to be there for them, or expect the "rich" (average joe's like me) to support them because they don't want to work.
All thanks to the Liberal "State". Way to go guys... that's why I'm a Conservative, and why I will never vote Liberal ever again.
At Wed Aug 29, 09:39:00 a.m. EDT,
Christian Conservative said…
"What are the police? A gang for the wealthy!"
Almost forgot to comment on this one... no, the police are the keepers of the peace, those who have been entrusted by society to ensure our laws are upheld, and that everyone is able to live as peaceably as possible, with the least amount of disruption in our lives.
For example, they're to assist in the prevention of and punishment of those who commit murder, theft, destruction of property, trespassing, traffic violations, oh, and my favorite, theft of tax dollars by politicians...
Funny, where's my justice? Oh, maybe you're right after all... the police are just a gang of people in the pocket of the rich, like the Liberal politicians who stole my tax dollars and gave them to their friends ad agencies in Quebec.
Yet another reason why I'm a Conservative... because it's the only party of the average working Joe Canadian that is looking out for his or her interests. And for the record, NONE of those I know within the party fit into your catagory of "the rich"... now how do you explain that? As a matter of fact, most of the "rich" I know in town are card carrying Liberals!!!
At Wed Aug 29, 11:58:00 a.m. EDT,
zolton said…
"I just shake my head Christian conservative, you really have no idea what you're talking about".
Is god a right winger BTW?
Why are you using rhetoric that is popular in the united state. "Liberals suck even though I do not know the definition"
You're a pawn!
Your primal emotions are being manipulated rather then you being convinced with and argument.
The "right" does not have REASONS for doing what their doing.
At Wed Aug 29, 12:07:00 p.m. EDT,
zolton said…
Haha Just because some punk kid ran around with a water gun? full of urine doesn't show that lefties use violence. That just shows me that some kid got pissed off at the fascists and took it wrongly.
Is that your proof?
Well here's my proof!
Starting foreign unjust wars for oil/Israel. How many Iraqi's are dead because of this BULLSHIT? 1.5 since 1990.
50% of Iraqs population is under 14!
If you are a Christian you would follow St Aquinas's just war theory. Out of the 7 legitimate reasons A state has to goto war which one did the united states have??? LoL
Yeah the left wingers got a secret Vanguard army hidden away! lol
Lets talk about indirect harm now!
How many individuals under our current economic system are being exploited and abused everyday? Lets just round it down to a cool billion!
Now Sadamn Hussien is a war criminal dictator, you will get no argument here from me. He killed 300,000 Kurds during an uprising using chemical weapons in 1989. If the united states was honorable they would have acted then.
No instead they kill 5 times the amount of people and get off with ought any repercussion. I happen to think that right wingers have a Monopoly on death and destruction.
At Wed Aug 29, 12:16:00 p.m. EDT,
Christian Conservative said…
This is NOT a "right vs. left" issue... this is about having a bunch of people (who just happen to pretty much all be on the left) who are continually flouting the laws of this land, and who are seeking to undermine the authority of the police... who have been appointed by society at large, not by either "the left" or "the right".
Why is it that more people on the left despise the police? Can you help me answer that? They are here to enforce the laws of the land equally... from my chair, you obey the law, you won't have any run-ins with the cops. Seems pretty simple to me... why is that such a difficult concept?
I have seen people able to make a point via protest without interference from any sort of authorities. It's those who attempt to disregard the duely appointed authorites that are the ONLY ones who run into trouble.
I support the rights of everyone to protest... I don't support those who try to "push the envelope" and gain media attention to their cause by running afowl of our laws, or who cause massive disturbances in order to promote their agenda.
If you want to turn it into a left vs. right issue, go right ahead... in my view, we on the right have not been as sucessful in putting forward our agenda over the years because we do something the extreme left won't too... RESPECT THE PEOPLE OF AND THE LAWS OF THIS LAND.
At Wed Aug 29, 12:36:00 p.m. EDT,
Christian Conservative said…
"Now Sadamn Hussien is a war criminal dictator, you will get no argument here from me. He killed 300,000 Kurds during an uprising using chemical weapons in 1989. If the united states was honorable they would have acted then.
Your absolutely correct... they had their chance in 1991, they should have kept going. Instead, Bush Sr. backed off because the next year was an election year... and Bill Clinton won. Of course, he never dealt with Iraq his entire term, and left the issue festering, with an occasional air strike here and there.
As for the Iraq war, Saddam was a threat... and the whole issue has been a mess in how it was handled... a complete mess. However, you want to blame the USA? How about putting some of the blame where it belongs? On the shoulders of those who have no qualms murdering children, or anyone who speaks out against the religious intolerance of the extremists in the area?
God is not on either the left or the right... WE'VE ALL GOT IT WRONG, and He'll sort us all out one day. Me, I'm just wanting to make this place better for my fellow man.
For the record, I think war sucks, and I don't advocate that it should be undertaken lightly... it would be great if it could all just be ended here and now. Problem is, the US pulls out of Iraq now, and the extremists retake the country, and then set their sights on their original goal... the destruction of our way of life. Don't delude yourself... they HATE the freedoms you and I have to protest and argue with one another, but they have no problems using it to their advantage. So, I submit to you a plea to stop being a "pawn" yourself.
If you have any better ideas on how to end the violence of the extremists once and for all, I'M ALL EARS, and I'll back any sensible plan you have 100%... sound good? And if you can propose one that doesn't involve any form of military intervention, EVEN BETTER! I'd be happy to put my name on it with you!
Right now, I just don't see any other course of action that will ensure the rights of the people, especially women, in those regions. We pull out, and it's burqua's all around... tell me, do you support that?
If not, what is your recommendation? I'm not being argumentative here, I'm asking an honest question... WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE? I hear a whole lot of protest, but not much by way of ideas from "the left". They say we should pull out of Afghanistan by 2009... and what exactly is that going to accomplish? Sure Canadian troops won't be dying anymore... but the killing won't stop. Negotiate with the Taliban... FOR WHAT? "Please stop killing the women in your country who don't want to wear a burqua in public". Yea, right... that'll go over well.
I'm sorry, but I just don't see to many people able to clearly propose any viable solutions here. That's why I support our Afghan mission, even if it has to go beyond 2009... the people of Afghanistan need us. I want our people out of there ASAP, but if we leave soon, the Taliban will only just retake the nation, and continue their oppression of the people. I don't support that, so we're in a lose/lose situation.
Sad world we live in, eh?
At Wed Aug 29, 12:38:00 p.m. EDT,
zolton said…
The racism comparison works really well!
Emotional explotation vs reasoned arguments.
The unfounded beliefs being the ones emotional exploited. LoL
Afraid of phantom bogymen?
Angry at liberals? and lefties?
Thats emotional manipulation of you're primal emotions. The same crap racists used.
At Wed Aug 29, 12:56:00 p.m. EDT,
Christian Conservative said…
I, for one, prefer evidence.
The Taliban... not quite the cuddly teddy-bears Layton thinks they are...
At Thu Aug 30, 02:36:00 p.m. EDT,
Brian in Calgary said…
zolton - CC made a series of good points and asked a whole lot of good questions in his second last comment (and provided a good link in his last comment). Any suggestions you do come up in response would be considered by me. Heck, I might even put my name along CC's in support. The ball is now in your court.
At Fri Aug 31, 01:07:00 p.m. EDT,
zolton said…
Well they don't hate us for our freedoms for one. Thats what Bush said)you automatically know thats bullshit) Look a little deeper past the double speak.
Iraq was already festering because Bush Sr was in power and bombed the hell out of it. Don't blame Clinton.
Also you're argument on extremism looses merit when you look at some of our allies. Doe Saudi Arabia ring a bell? They still mistreat women and have many backwards beliefs were not bombing equality into their minds.
Imagine a foreign country trying to BOMB and idea into our heads. Think it would work? lol Think we would not react with violence the same as people in the middle east.
Bush killed 3 times more innocent Iraqi's then Sadamn ever did! I do not condone Sadamn of Bush's actions, their both war criminals.
Islam is truly about peace, however there are extreme elements to almost everything. The Muslim sect you have a problem with is the WAhbi? There just as crazy as those fundamentalist Christians. You see in order to exploit your emotional condition they need to create "phantom bogymen" to make you fearful and angry enough to be paranoid.
"However, you want to blame the USA?"
Well first all they supported Saddamn keeping him in power almost all that time. They sold him the chemicals to gas gas his people in the north!
When that happened they did not act on the interest of mankind, showing that the united states no longer abides by a moral code but by economic interests. (no more soft power)
And yes I blame the united states for starting and unjust war (according to ST Aquinas) just so they could enter the state of perpetual warfare (for it is profitable)
How do we break the violence?
Feed cloth and shelter our "enemies"! instead of bombing the crap out of families!
I wrote a mini essay for you guys that was waay better then this but I accidentally hit the back button. If you still need clarification I will be happy to debate later however right now I gtg!
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