Christian Conservative Christian "Independent"

I'm an evangelical Christian, member of the CPC, but presently & unjustly exiled to wander the political wilderness.
All opinions expressed here are solely my own.

Tuesday, August 01, 2006

Well said Peter MacKay

Peter MacKay made some good statements as he weathered the Opposition's barage in committee today.
The minister was asked several times why Canada won’t call for an immediate ceasefire to which MacKay responded there is no point in calling for a ceasefire unless there is a plan for lasting peace to back it up.

“Simply mouthing the words ceasefire, is not going to make it happen. A ceasefire cannot occur with only one party participating in a ceasefire,” he said, adding Hezbollah has made no efforts to enter talks and appears to be the only party that wants the violence to continue.

He called the group, which is listed by Canada as a terrorist organization, a “cancer on Lebanon.”


MacKay reiterated the government’s position of siding with Israel in the conflict but also said it has joined the international community in asking Israel to exercise the “utmost restraint” in its strikes on Lebanon in order to avoid civilian deaths and injuries.

“Lebanon and Israel have suffered enough,” he told the committee. “The killing has to stop.”


UPDATE: LOL! Gotta love MacKay... here's another exchange from that meeting...
In a testy exchange with Liberal MP Dan McTeague, MacKay defended his own handling of the crisis, particularly when it first began.

"Where were you for the first four days of this crisis?" McTeague asked, referring to MacKay's initial lack of visibility.

"I was on the job," MacKay shot back. "You may have been on TV, but I was meeting with officials."
Via CBC. h/t to Alberta Tory.

53 Comments:

  • At Tue Aug 01, 09:49:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Does the NDP actually believe that Hezbollah is listed in the Phone Book to just call up and give the "Cease-fire" message
    and book a Hotel Hall to meet and re-enact past charades about lasting Peace for land.

    BTW, the agreement for the 48 hour halt in the IAF strikes was violated witin 12 hours when Hezbollah kept fiting rockets from Civilians areas.

     
  • At Tue Aug 01, 11:24:00 PM EDT, Blogger Blake said…

    I'm with anonymous on this one. The people who think Israel stands to benefit from a monopartite ceasefire are decieving themselves, unless they give the support to Israel to pummell anybody who violates that cease-fire agreement afterwards.

    I'm afraid that attitudes on the left sometimes treat Arabs as thought they're stupid little savages, incapable of understanding the grown ups world and therefore not to be held accountable when they act like savages. I think it's time for real accountability to held to the leaders of these countries that refuse to do anything to shut down the terrorist groups.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 09:54:00 AM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    but in the meantime, innocent kids are being killed. By an army that strikes at hospitals and UN Posts.

    Israel's not the good guy in this one. Nobody who's doing the shooting is.

    And in the meantime, the tories use the conflict and the dead innocents as a theme for a fund-raising mailout.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 10:15:00 AM EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    The Tory fundraising issue is a non-starter. I had the debate on another blog, the Liberals use current events for their fundraising mailouts too.

    Having read the Tory one, it was referring to Harper being a decisive Prime Minister, and asking us to donate on THAT basis, NOT on the basis of the war. I also got one on the basis of the new Childcare allowance... so your point would be...?

    Here's a senario for you... there is a neighbour to your north who has vowed to destroy you, who has the support of most civilians in the areas they operate in, and who are lobbing rockets into your backyard with near impunity... and the rest of the world won't lift a finger to help you. You decide that enough is enough, and you start to pound his launch sites... which have been convieniently and deliberatly located within civilian centres. (which is a war crime which the world has chosen to ignore for some reason) You send warning, tell non-combatants to get out. Then you blow the positions sky high. Even one civilain death is tragic... but NOT unexpected. Until the people of Lebanon stop actively supporting terrorism, this will not end, even if a cease-fire is imposed. (and it will be a one sided ceasefire at that, make no mistake)

    Hezbollah WANTS this conflict to continue, and Israel wants it to end. A "ceasefire" right now is a win for Hezbollah, since they will ignore international regulations anyway. (see above RE: using civilain centres as militart positions) Israel knows the only way to win in this conflict, and to stop the missiles and kidnappings, IS TO HIT HARD AND RELENTLESSLY.

    They have no option, because the world refuses to support them in their ongoing conflict with terrorists. THAT'S yet another reason why I support our Prime Minsiter's stand... because he and his caucus can see that, and have chosen to stand with Israel. Until Hezbollah is DISARMED, there can be NO PEACE.

    When the UN comes out with a resolution demanding that Hezbollah completely and totally be disarmed, THEN there will be a chance at peace. Until then, I'm not holding my breath...

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 11:34:00 AM EDT, Blogger Paul MacPhail said…

    CC, hate to break it to ya, but the UN already had a resolution calling for the disarmament of all militant groups in Lebanon. Resolution 1559.

    Unfortunately, the resolution had the same effect as our gun registry here; we all know that only honest people abide by the registry - not criminals.

    JDave34, you're partly right, there are no "good guys" in this conflict. It's not about being good though, the Israeli's and the Lebanese were pretty good for most of the last couple of years and many have even taken the huge risk of becoming friends, and yet here we are. Your remarks about the Israeli attacks on Red Cross vehicles and on churches, etc should be clarified: Hezbollah was using these locations to launch their attacks from and were proudly displaying it. Unless you know of a way to get the Katyushas out of the kitchen, calling for a ceasefire is likely to accomplish nothing axcept to make ourselves feel better in the court of world opinion.

    Furthermore, if we are to have a ceasefire, it will require an intervention force to separate the two warring sides. This won't work if Hezbollah keeps hiding among the peacekeepers, exposing them to the fatal dangers that we are all too painfully aware of now.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 11:41:00 AM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    "which have been convieniently and deliberatly located within civilian centres."

    2 points:

    1) according to who?
    2) I had no idea that UN outposts were harboring Hezbollah missile launchers. Hospitals either for that matter.

    "You send warning, tell non-combatants to get out."

    --Which is fine if you have the means to get out, but if you don't...

    "Then you blow the positions sky high. Even one civilain death is tragic... but NOT unexpected."

    -So git while the gittin's good, and if you happen to be poor or sick or unable to leave the poor and sick behind, well f*ck you. You don't matter anyways.

    "Hezbollah WANTS this conflict to continue, and Israel wants it to end."

    --Because if you kill enough children, they won't be able to form the next generation of Hezbollah, right?

    "Israel knows the only way to win in this conflict, and to stop the missiles and kidnappings, IS TO HIT HARD AND RELENTLESSLY."

    --You don't think exchanging prisoners, establishing a no-go zone patrolled by an international force and the removal of the wall being built between Israel and Palestine wouldn't help? not even a bit? Killing seniors and children is the only way? Please.

    "They have no option, because the world refuses to support them in their ongoing conflict with terrorists."

    --The world will support Israel, as long as they engage in fair and measured and proportional behaviour. Blowing up hospitals, and blowing Lebanon back to the dark ages is not the way to gain support. If ANYTHING, the world refuses to support the many legitimate grievances of the Palestinians. And as long as we're talking about fair and noble and decent Israel, tell me, when do they intend to follow international treaties and A) declare their nuclear arsenal, and B) allow for inspections of it by the UN?

    "THAT'S yet another reason why I support our Prime Minsiter's stand... because he and his caucus can see that, and have chosen to stand with Israel."

    --No, they've chosen to stand with the US, alienating a large portion of the world, and destroying our reputation as honest brokers.


    I know you're not going to change your mind. Israel is always right. All I know is that the guy who sits 5 feet from me at work has parents who had to flee their home before it was blown up and are now sharing a 1 bedroom apartment with 25 other people. And they're not getting their home back, because it no longer exists. And FYI: they're not terrorists.

    A question: How do you think that the current events are going to make things better? Is the destruction of Lebanon going to open Arab hearts to Israel? Is this going to put a stop to Islamic terrorism? Or is this just the latest event in the long-running soap opera?

    Fuck it. I hope they blow each other off the map. Maybe then the rest of the world won't have to put up with this garbage. From both sides.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 11:47:00 AM EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Paul, thanks for the clarification regarding UN Resolution 1559... I didn't realize one had been passed.

    Now, if we could just get it enforced... maybe by the international peacekeeping force that the world is calling for?

    I know... I guess I'm just a hopeless and nieve optimist. It simply won't happen, but one can always hope.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 11:47:00 AM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    "MacKay, summoned to a special session of Parliament's foreign affairs committee to discuss the crisis, said Lebanon was being held hostage by Hizbollah."

    Ummm, aren't you supposed to save the hostages? Not kill every last one of em?

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 11:49:00 AM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    "Now, if we could just get it enforced... maybe by the international peacekeeping force that the world is calling for?"

    --No peacekeeping force is going to go in there, until there's a ceasefire, but there's no point in calling for one, is there?

    Circular logic rocks.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 12:02:00 PM EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    You're right jDave, the points you made won't change my mind, in this instance. I've seen Israel try several times to abide by various peace deals, only to have some suicide bomber sneak in while the guard was down.

    You are right on one point, that their actions certainly won't endear them to their neighbours. I don't have any solution to that, other than figuring out some way of stopping groups like Hezbollah and Hamas from teaching kids that "suicide bomber" is a noble career choice.

    Any thoughts on that? (asking an honest question, not seeking to mock)

    As for your friend who sits near you, tell him that I sincerly hope that this ends soon, and that all nations, INCLUDING Israel, assist his family in rebuilding their lives.

    People seem to forget that HEZBOLLAH is the key here! This isn't about Lebanon, it's about Hezbollah! Until this terrorist group is disarmed, I just don't see any likelyhood of any kind of lasting peace. Israel could lay down their arms today, but Hezbollah will keep on launching rockets right over the heads of the UN forces, and the UN forces simply won't take the steps necessary to stop the attacks. More resolutions will be passed by the UN, but nothing will change.

    That's why I liked MacKay's comments... "Hezbollah is a cancer in Lebanon". Now, let's figure out how to remove the cancer without killing the patient!!! (or any more civilians!!!!)

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 12:09:00 PM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    "People seem to forget that HEZBOLLAH is the key here! This isn't about Lebanon, it's about Hezbollah!"

    --Interesting point. Now how does blowing up Lebanon eradicate Hezbollah? And if it does, will there be no more terrorism? Look at it this way: your house is infested with cockroaches. Out of exasperation you blow your house to kingdom come. But what's that in the rubble? Why, it's more cockroaches!!!

    I don't support either side, but Hezbollah didn't just wake up and decide to hate Israel. There are some legitimate Palestinian grievances that have not been addressed, and terrorism is the result.

    Until these grievances are addressed fairly, this isn't going to end. And those grievances will never be addressed. Not fairly anyways.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 12:40:00 PM EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    You're right... until the "Right of Return" issue is dropped, the rest of the grivances will go unresolved as well.

    Israel cannot accept the importation of hundreds of suicide bombers within their own borders.

    Would you?

    In terms of getting rid of the roaches, I don't think you can compare Israel's current action to blowing the whole house to kingdom come. I think you'd have to compare it to pulling down a wall or two where you know a major area of infestation is.

    Again, Israel's current action is not a perfect nor desired solution... but what other option do they have? (remembering that most of your suggestions have already been tried, and have failed, resulting in many dead Israelis)

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 12:49:00 PM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    "Israel cannot accept the importation of hundreds of suicide bombers within their own borders."

    --Would they be bombers if the Palestinians had been treated fairly in the first place? The bomber argument is a smokescreen. Israel doesn't want the Palestinians coming back, because they're afraid that the Arabs would become a majority, and use that majority democratically to run the show.

    "In terms of getting rid of the roaches, I don't think you can compare Israel's current action to blowing the whole house to kingdom come. I think you'd have to compare it to pulling down a wall or two where you know a major area of infestation is."

    --Only if that wall gets pulled down on and kills a couple of infants who had nothing to do with the cockroaches.

    "Again, Israel's current action is not a perfect nor desired solution... but what other option do they have?"

    --Start with a ceasefire, and a multinational force. Then negotiate the palestinian problem with a NEUTRAL third party. NEUTRAL, not the US pretending to be honest brokers. Canada could have played that role, but our government chose to pick sides.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 01:56:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Israel's not the good guy in this one. Nobody who's doing the shooting is.

    Not even the people defending themselves from constant rocket attacks? Not even when defending themselves from terrorists groups whose mandate it is to destroy your country?

    Kindly shut up now please. Thank you.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 01:57:00 PM EDT, Blogger Paul MacPhail said…

    JDave34 (Can we just call ya Dave?)

    The Palestinian problem isn't just a problem created by Israel. The Palestinians were treated very badly by Arab countries (from what I've read from one Lebanese blogger, the Palestinians were treated worse than animals in some of the refugee camps in other Arab countries.)
    If you review your history lessons, you'll find that when Israel was created, those that were living there already (ie Palestinians) were allowed to stay and live in peace in the newly formed state. Believing an Arab victory would ensure their return, the majority of Palestinians instead left. Despite this, roughly 19% of the population there is Arabic, and they have chosen to live peacefully.
    As for your suggestion of tearing down the wall, that's exactly the opposite of what the purpose of a peacekeeping force would hope to accomplish: separation of the two warring parties so that the healing process can begin.

    If you have any children of your own, or neices & nephews, I'm sure you can think of at least one instance where the children had to be separated until cooler heads could prevail.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 02:03:00 PM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    anonymous:

    "Not even the people defending themselves from constant rocket attacks?"

    you mean the Lebanese people? OK...maybe they're innocent. I was referring to the 2 sides doing the fighting: Hezbollah and the Israeli military.

    I didn't think I'd have to explain that, but there's always a few short-bus kids floating around the blogosphere, huh? The type of dunce who doesn't even know how to create a blogger account.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 02:07:00 PM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    Paul:

    Good post! You're right, Israel didn't create the problem. Bad moves were made by lots of parties, but since the problem affects Israel so much, it'd probably be in their best interest to negotiate some kind of solution.

    And FYI: I didn't suggest tearing down the wall, that was CC. I suggested the no-go zone, multinational bouncers to keep them apart, and fair negotiations.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 02:07:00 PM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    and you can totally call me Dave!
    ;)

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 02:11:00 PM EDT, Blogger Paul MacPhail said…

    "I didn't suggest tearing down the wall"

    Sorry. My bad. Point still stands though.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 02:22:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    You mean the Lebanese people? OK...maybe they're innocent.

    "Maybe?" Interesting. And how long should Israel sit there and do nothing while Hezbollah uses the "maybes" as human shields to carry about those attacks? At least Israel warns ahead that they are coming. Does Hezbollah? Yeah, that is what I thought.

    I was referring to the 2 sides doing the fighting: Hezbollah and the Israeli military.

    No, you were referring to Israel as not being the "good guys". So who is? Obviously, you don't even know the difference between the two.

    I didn't think I'd have to explain that, but there's always a few short-bus kids floating around the blogosphere, huh?

    And there are always a few people leading the way and driving that blogosphere bus, huh?

    The type of dunce who doesn't even know how to create a blogger account.

    Or the typical type of dunce to focus on anonymity rather than an argument because he knows he cannot deal with the latter.

    So again, kindly shut up now. Please and thank you.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 02:32:00 PM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    "At least Israel warns ahead that they are coming."

    --I'll let the dead UN workers know. The 8 Canadians who died too. they'll be touched.

    "No, you were referring to Israel as not being the "good guys". So who is? Obviously, you don't even know the difference between the two."

    --that was only in the context of what others are saying. I don't think there are any good guys. Both sides are using innocents as pawns to advance agendas that have nothing to do with building a lasting peace.

    "And there are always a few people leading the way and driving that blogosphere bus, huh?"

    --Somebody has to get the retards to where they're going, huh? Personally, I'd rather be driving than drooling in the back, swatting at imaginary bugs.

    "Or the typical type of dunce to focus on anonymity rather than an argument because he knows he cannot deal with the latter."

    --actually, I addressed your 'points', simple-minded as they were. Any plans to ever actually identify yourself, or is the coward's way a lifetime vocation for you?

    "So again, kindly shut up now. Please and thank you."

    Ummm, no. But anytime you feel like making me, you just let me know. I think you know where to find me. You see, I'm not afraid to attach a name to myself.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 02:34:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Israel didn't create the problem. Bad moves were made by lots of parties, but since the problem affects Israel so much, it'd probably be in their best interest to negotiate some kind of solution.

    Land for peace, prisoner trades, UN resolution after resolution, etc, etc. That has worked so well thus far, hasn't it? How many wars have Israel had to fight to defend itself now? Maybe you don't get tired getting your face punched in, but some people do.

    When you have groups threatening your very existence, how do you negotiate with that? Please, favour us with your infinite wisdom that half a dozen conflicts defending yourself (and STILL showing remarkable restraint after all this time) could not possibly impart. We await with baited breath.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 02:55:00 PM EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Amm, jDave, I don't recall advocating tearing down the wall... I support it!

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 03:02:00 PM EDT, Blogger Paul MacPhail said…

    From the "Oops - I was wrong because I thought I was wrong when I was right" dept:

    "--You don't think exchanging prisoners, establishing a no-go zone patrolled by an international force and the removal of the wall being built between Israel and Palestine wouldn't help? not even a bit? Killing seniors and children is the only way? Please."

    Actually, that was your comment Dave, not CC's.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 03:02:00 PM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    sorry CC: I confused description with advocacy....my bad.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 03:10:00 PM EDT, Blogger Paul MacPhail said…

    Any visitors here want to see some honest debate from people in the area that are probably a whole lot smarter and knowledgable than us (well, myself anyway)?

    http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/001220.html

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 03:18:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I'll let the dead UN workers know. The 8 Canadians who died too. They'll be touched.

    And while you are there, ask the holy UN, why peaceful "observers" were there long after the shooting started.

    That was only in the context of what others are saying.

    Sure. Nice excuse.

    I don't think there are any good guys. Both sides are using innocents as pawns to advance agendas that have nothing to do with building a lasting peace.

    Except you have explicitly stated that "Israel's not the good guy in this one" and "nobody who's doing the shooting is". So tell us, JDAVE, if between the two shooters of Israel and Hezbollah, if Israel is not the "good guy", then who is, hmmm?

    Yeah, YOU'RE done.

    Somebody has to get the retards to where they're going, huh? Personally, I'd rather be driving than drooling in the back, swatting at imaginary bugs.

    Oh, I know you would. You've been at the back of that bus often enough as a passenger to realize the distinction. And because you've made the trip so often yourself, who better but to drive the rest when you've made the trip so often?

    actually, I addressed your 'points', simple-minded as they were.

    Um, if you need to believe that, be my guest.

    Ummm, no. But anytime you feel like making me, you just let me know.

    Well actually, I didn't think that you would ever shut-up. Blowhards usually can't. But it sure doesn't hurt to be polite and say "please" and "thank you" does it? :-)

    I think you know where to find me.

    Visit your blog? For what particular reason? What is wrong with where we are currently at?

    Any plans to ever actually identify yourself, or is the coward's way a lifetime vocation for you?

    Oh, ok "JDAVE". Again, the attack on the anonymity when no effective attack on the message presents itself. Typical left-wing blathering. *YAWN*

    You see, I'm not afraid to attach a name to myself.

    Well, lets see your profile. Oh yes - a 34 year old male Pisces phone guy who lives in Ottawa and likes kids shows like My Little Pony.

    WOW! Way to put yourself out there "JDAVE".

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 03:21:00 PM EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Right, my "tearing down the wall" example... oops! I can see how that confused matters!

    Every analogy breaks down somewhere, right? ;-)

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 03:29:00 PM EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Amm, it would help us out "anonymous", (whichever one you are) if you could at least put a set of initials down at the end of your comment to ID which ones are yours. I don't care what you use, just be consistant. Use BM for "BatMan" or "IHH" for "I Hate Hezbollah" for all I care! It would help the debate out so we can sort out who said what... and try not to get personal... talk about the issues, don't attack the other commenters.

    Remeber, I reserve the right to remove pointless attack posts, or, for that matter, anything else I want... right jDave? ;-)

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 03:39:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Very well CC :-) Pen me.....DB, for Dave's Bane.

    Back to business.

    I don't think there are any good guys.

    Again, this cannot be overstated. If you cannot see a "good guy" or a "bad guy" between a country who is constantly defending itself from attack from terrorist groups that want their complete and utter destruction, and a particular terrorist group who makes that other country's ruin their very mandate, you are completley addled.

    ***********

    DB

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 03:46:00 PM EDT, Anonymous drew said…

    I don't think there are any good guys. Both sides are using innocents as pawns to advance agendas that have nothing to do with building a lasting peace.

    "Except you have explicitly stated that "Israel's not the good guy in this one" and "nobody who's doing the shooting is". So tell us, JDAVE, if between the two shooters of Israel and Hezbollah, if Israel is not the "good guy", then who is, hmmm?"

    Um, didn't he say that nobody is the good guy in this situation? Saying that one side is definitely not the good guy doesn't mean that the other side necessarily is.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 04:05:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Um, didn't he say that nobody is the good guy in this situation? Saying that one side is definitely not the good guy doesn't mean that the other side necessarily is.

    When you compare and contrast the two, how can that even be a credible statement? One country is defending itself from constant attack since its inception from the other side (which is only one group of many) that has its total annihilation as its very mandate. How can there be any ambiguity here?

    Again, Israel is beset by enemies on all its borders that want nothing but its utter destection. It has most recently come under attack by a terrorist group that, in cowardly fashion, is well known for using civilians as shields while launching attacks and while hiding in an independant country that is unable or unwilling to control them or its own side of the border.

    I don't blame Israel for wanting to create buffer zones. After having to defend myself in a half dozen wars from numerous enemies since I was born, I'd be a little pissed to.

    ***********

    DB

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 04:16:00 PM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    Just so that I myself am clear here (commenting while @ work can sometimes lead to a very scatterbrained me)

    2 walls: the wall in the analogy CC and I were making, that actually refers to Lebanese civilian infrastructure; and the wall that is being built between Israel and Palestinian territories, that I would support if it wasn't turnoing out to be a poorly disguised land-grab by Israel.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 04:21:00 PM EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Hummm, "Dave's Bane"? I know a Dave Bain...

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 05:00:00 PM EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Sorry jDave... -POOF-

    "The comment you have dialed is not in service. Please hang up, and try your comment again."

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 05:07:00 PM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    DB said...


    "And while you are there, ask the holy UN, why peaceful "observers" were there long after the shooting started."

    --Gee DB, what's with the quotes around observers? Are you implying that the UN observers were there for some less than honourable reasons? Please share, and I'll remind you that a brave Canadian soldier died there. And you can ask holy Israel why they blew up the outpost despite receiving 10 calls that day from the outpost notifying them of their location and identity.

    " Except you have explicitly stated that "Israel's not the good guy in this one" and "nobody who's doing the shooting is". So tell us, JDAVE, if between the two shooters of Israel and Hezbollah, if Israel is not the "good guy", then who is, hmmm?"

    --I DON'T FUdgING THINK THERE ARE ANY FUdgING GOOD GUYS IN THIS FUdgING WAR. (better CC?). I've said this time and again on this and every other board I've talked about this on. Your continually asking me "who is?" really makes me question whether or not you are a highly functional down's syndr--chimpanzee. If you are, I congratulate you for being able to post as well as you have. If you are not a highly functional down's synd--chimpanzee, I have to ask: Are you fuDGing retar--developmentally delayed or something????

    " actually, I addressed your 'points', simple-minded as they were."

    --No, you invented mine.

    " Visit your blog? For what particular reason? What is wrong with where we are currently at?"

    --Well at least you'd only be wasting my time instead of everyone's.


    "Oh, ok "JDAVE". Again, the attack on the anonymity when no effective attack on the message presents itself. Typical left-wing blathering. *YAWN*"

    --Oh, ok chimponymous. Again the usual left-wing stereotype bullshizzle when no effective attack on the message presents itself. Typical anonymous blathering. *double yawn*

    "Well, lets see your profile. Oh yes - a 34 year old male Pisces phone guy who lives in Ottawa and likes kids shows like My Little Pony.

    WOW! Way to put yourself out there "JDAVE"."

    --Well let's see. There's also my email address which probably links to my MSN profile. Not to mention the fact that everyone I know, knows that I'm jdave34 when I'm online. You see, I'm not afraid to stand behind what I say, and I'm also not afraid of anyone I know in my day-to-day seeing what I have to say. I'm also not afraid to provide a historical frame of reference for others to go by when considering what I have to say. They can see my comments every day and see that I remain consistent, funny, and fairly intelligent. Unlike yourself. I never know which nameless jacka--beast of burden I'm dealing with. To tell you the truth, I'm wondering if you're one of the Israeli youths who've been conscripted to go into threads and chatrooms where reasonable people are discussing things and deliberately threadjack and present a ridiculously slanted POV. Naaaahhhhh, couldn't be.

    There. how's that?

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 06:00:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Are you implying that the UN observers were there for some less than honourable reasons? Please share, and I'll remind you that a brave Canadian soldier died there.

    Honourable? Absolutley and certainly, their INTENTIONS are. But that doesn't mean that "peacekeepers" (good job btw) or "observers" (just what it is that they are "observing" or hoping to "find") should be there when the fighting breaks out. Obviously, a few outside people watching the fighting aren't helping anyone there; they are just unfortunate casualties waiting to happen that Hezbollah will take every advantage of and use as yet more shields for propoganda purposes.

    And you can ask holy Israel why they blew up the outpost despite receiving 10 calls that day from the outpost notifying them of their location and identity.

    And by that logic, Israel should be exempt from responsibility for notifying the people of Lebanon of imminent bombing. But logic isn't exactly your forte is it?

    I DON'T FUdgING THINK THERE ARE ANY FUdgING GOOD GUYS IN THIS FUdgING WAR. (better CC?). I've said this time and again on this and every other board I've talked about this on.

    So no good guys, eh? Well that is just bully! Does this mean by obvious extension that there are no bad guys here either? What is it going to take for you to take a real stance on this issue? Take a stand one way or the other "JDAVE"; it isn't that hard. Really.

    And BTW, what would Israel have to do to be considered a "good guy"? Give the terrorists EVERYTHING? What would it take for the Hezbollah to be considered a "bad guy", finally able to obtain and deploy a nuclear weapon in a terrorist attack? "No good guys"? You're bloody deluded "JDAVE.

    Your continually asking me "who is?" really makes me question whether or not you are a highly functional down's syndr--chimpanzee.

    And you constantly avoiding an answer or taking a stand is real indication that you couldn't hope to be quite so functional as even that.

    If you are, I congratulate you for being able to post as well as you have. If you are not a highly functional down's synd--chimpanzee, I have to ask: Are you fuDGing retar--developmentally delayed or something????

    "fuDGing". Wow, an implication of swearing and cursing. Aren't you a clever little boy? :-)

    No, you invented mine.

    Um, JDAVE? That quote you referenced was yours, not mine. Wake up, ok?

    Well at least you'd only be wasting my time instead of everyone's.

    Your right, having to smash your arguments is a waste of time.

    Oh, ok chimponymous. Again the usual left-wing stereotype bullshizzle when no effective attack on the message presents itself. Typical anonymous blathering. *double yawn*

    Well "JDAVE", its no secret I'm anonymous. But that you are left-wing is obvious. And anyway, I've obtained myself these super-duper initials of DB, so I guess I'm kosher now (pun intended). Make that a triple, alrighty?

    Well let's see. There's also my email address which probably links to my MSN profile.

    "Probably."

    Not to mention the fact that everyone I know, knows that I'm jdave34 when I'm online.

    And now everyone knows I'm DB. Bully for me, right?

    You see, I'm not afraid to stand behind what I say, and I'm also not afraid of anyone I know in my day-to-day seeing what I have to say.

    And bully for you.

    They can see my comments every day and see that I remain consistent, funny, and fairly intelligent. Unlike yourself.

    Well goody for you. I don't require an electronic handle pat-on-the-back to know I'm bright, have a great sense of humour, or can also be consistent. Being anonymous isn't exclusive from the fact that my arguments carry weight, and everytime you point to anonymity, its an obvious crutch that you are leaning on because you have nothing more substantial to add than that.

    I never know which nameless jacka--beast of burden I'm dealing with.

    Well, as I've already stated, I'm DB, my iniitals at the end of my paragraphs say so! ;-)

    To tell you the truth, I'm wondering if you're one of the Israeli youths who've been conscripted to go into threads and chatrooms where reasonable people are discussing things and deliberately threadjack and present a ridiculously slanted POV. Naaaahhhhh, couldn't be.

    Can't you guys just hear the theme song to the X-Files now? Get your tinfoil hat ready "JDAVE" and sing it with me!

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 06:01:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Oh, I forgot, its DB now ^^^^^^ ;-)

    "There. how's that?"

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 06:08:00 PM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    "tinfoil hat"

    heh.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 06:12:00 PM EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Better... I guess. ;-)

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 06:16:00 PM EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Actually DB, I asked jDave to "fudge" his post.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 06:28:00 PM EDT, Anonymous ryan said…

    Arrgh....anon.

    PUH...leeze

    You're playing right into jdave's hands. Some of your arguements are OK, but others are pretty weak. Even if you were hitting'em outta the park everytime he'd still come back with more, that's his MO. He's trying (and succeeding) at gettting your goat, leave it be.


    "Visit your blog? For what particular reason? What is wrong with where we are currently at?"

    --Well at least you'd only be wasting my time instead of everyone's"

    This is actually a veiled attempt at self-depricting humour on the part of jdave. Insinuating that few ppl visit his blog. (He rarely posts or replies on his own blog, and prefers to stir up controversy on others)

    "fuDGing". Wow, an implication of swearing and cursing. Aren't you a clever little boy?"

    this was a self-edit on the part of jdave to comply with CC's wishes not to have any swearing on his sight.

    "Take a stand one way or the other "JDAVE"; it isn't that hard. Really"

    jdave rarely takes a stand for anything, mostly he just opposes whatever veiwpoint he feels is most prevalent...

    now you know, so chill out....this screamfest is getting annoying.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 06:43:00 PM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    Ryan

    "jdave rarely takes a stand for anything, mostly he just opposes whatever veiwpoint he feels is most prevalent..."

    Actually, that's not true. On this thread, I advocated a ceasefire, enforced by a multinational force, while some kind of lasting truce can be negotiated and established. I oppose viewpoiints I don't agree with, but more often than not, I go after faulty logic, misrepresentations, and outright bullshit. I don't particularly care about one side versus the other. The truth is I can see logic in both sides, and I can see flaws. That goes for most issues that are as big and complicated as the Middle East. You won't see me agreeing with the blogger's point most of the time for the simple reason that I don't seek out people I agree with so that I can go "Yeah, me too!!!" I look for blogs that I don't agree with, or more importantly blogs that I find aren't what I consider 'fair-brokers' (that's you CC). Mostly, I'm interested in a fair and vigorous debate, with no holds barred, and that is based on facts. Inventing news stories and totally misrepresenting one side for no other reason than to villify and be 'right' (as right as you can be when you make up your facts) is not going to move anyone forward.

    Other than that minor quibble, I couldn't agree more.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 06:46:00 PM EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    just reread that and I see where it could be interpreted that CC's not a fair broker. Nothing could be further from the truth. CC does a great job of stating his opinion in an above board fashion.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 07:00:00 PM EDT, Anonymous ryan said…

    OK, pretty close....

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 08:20:00 PM EDT, Blogger Paul MacPhail said…

    Getting back to the point of the post, CC; I felt that this tragedy has proven that Peter has the resolve and capacity to become one of Canada's finest ministers of Foreign Affairs. Considering the pressure he must be under now (not to take anything away from the citizens of those countries involved in the conflict) it was refreshing to see this government give the opposition parties time to tear them to shreds in an obviously blatant display of partisanship which did nothing to advance the prospect of peace. If I didn't know better, I'd almost think that both Alexa McDonough & Dan McTeague had already done a headcount to see how many votes they could get out of this tragedy. Dan's professions are supposed to be "Policy adviser, political assistant, public relations officer". Judging by his recent comments to the press, he should put more emphasis on the public relations of the We're not quite sure what we're against and what we're for Party (aka Liberal) and less emphasis on policy advice.

    But that's just my opinion.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 10:22:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    You're playing right into jdave's hands.

    LOL If you say so.

    Some of your arguements are OK, but others are pretty weak.

    Hmmm, just a matter of opinion.

    Even if you were hitting 'em outta the park everytime he'd still come back with more, that's his MO.

    Talking to hear himself talk.

    Gotcha.

    He's trying (and succeeding) at gettting your goat, leave it be.

    What, to "invoke" an angry or emotional response?" (thank you members.aol.com) :-) Actually, I'm not guilty of being angry with anything he said, but the emotional response of bemusement certainly applies.

    This is actually a veiled attempt at self-depricting humour on the part of jdave. Insinuating that few ppl visit his blog.

    And?

    He rarely posts or replies on his own blog, and prefers to stir up controversy on others.

    You've got that right. I've seen much of this "MO" used on other blogs.

    This was a self-edit on the part of jdave to comply with CC's wishes not to have any swearing on his sight.

    Because swearing is so very necessary, that we must have an edited form in order to look clever.

    jdave rarely takes a stand for anything, mostly he just opposes whatever veiwpoint he feels is most prevalent...

    So he rarely takes a stand, talks to hear himself talk, and visits other people's blogs merely to stir up trouble. Boy, you DO have his MO down pat.

    Now you know, so chill out....this screamfest is getting annoying.

    You are right. Speaking to "JDAVE" is like drinking oneself into a stupor; its just not worth the annoying hangover the next day. Alrighty then, I guess I can mercy and leave "JDAVE" to his own devices - for now (or at least until the next issue.

    Oh and jdave? You're welcome. ;-x

    ***************

    DB

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 10:33:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    EXACTLY Paul.

    And a ceasefire, especially a halfhearted one, is only going to maintain the status quo. Hezbollah will only use this time to rebuild their forces, and Lebanon will continue to do nothing about it, like they always do, the same as the impotent UN.

    Now most recently it was discovered that Hezbollah was using a hospital as one of their forward bases. Amazingly, but hardly suprising is that there are actually some armchair diplomats that seriously believe that peace can be made with these people.

    There is only one thing that will finally contribute to a lasting peace for Israel from murdering terrorists who have their destruction as a mandate - wipe them out utterly. More useless UN "resolutions" will not get the job done.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 11:38:00 PM EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Thanks for the clarification there jDave... I started thinking "HEY!", then I saw your 2nd comment. ;-)

    Thanks for the pat on the back for my efforts.

     
  • At Wed Aug 02, 11:43:00 PM EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    DB, quit with the personal attacks.

    There are regular everyday people are dying out there... so try to keep that in mind, eh? Speak to the issues at hand, or not at all, please.

     
  • At Thu Aug 03, 12:07:00 AM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    DB, quit with the personal attacks.

    Alright, fine. I already said I would have mercy, didn't I? ;-)

    There are regular everyday people are dying out there... so try to keep that in mind, eh? Speak to the issues at hand, or not at all, please.

    Incidently, that was me at 10:33pm, so I AM moving on.

     
  • At Thu Aug 03, 12:24:00 PM EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    It looks like I missed a lot in this conversation, but I'd like to put my two sense in too.

    As per all the talk about 'Good Guys' and 'Bad Guys', I actually do think there are both in this conflict:

    Good Guys - All the innocent civilians, who use to go about just doing there job everyday and are either; a) killed, b) injured, c) displaced, d) have been forced to live in fear of an attack, or e)had a friend or family member who has been affected by A, B, C, or D.

    Bad Guys - Everyone with a Gun and the audacity to shoot it (or any other weapon for that matter).

    Hence, there are Good Guys on both side's of the border and Bad Guys on both side's too...

    My solution... Bad Guys - Stop being Bad Guys!!! Good Guys - Don't be tempted to become Bad Guys!!

    And everyone can live in Peace!!!

    Mike

    P.S. Sorry about posting as anon on this site... As I live in Japan, I have a Japanese ISP and everything's written in Japanese. My inability to create a blogger account has everything to do with my lack of Japanese language skills and not (necessarially) stupidity!

     
  • At Thu Aug 03, 11:30:00 PM EDT, Anonymous ryan said…

    anon.

    real life is not that simple....

    The guys with the guns aren't always bad, and civilians aren't always innocent. Fighting is not necessarily wrong, and sometimes its your only opition if you wish to live. If Israel didn't respond militarily from time to time, they would risk being obliterated by any one of a number of aggressers. that's just a reality of their situation.

     

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