Christian Conservative Christian "Independent"

I'm an evangelical Christian, member of the CPC, but presently & unjustly exiled to wander the political wilderness.
All opinions expressed here are solely my own.

Thursday, February 09, 2006

A comment - reposted in full

Thanks for joining the debate "Sam". Here's his comment for all...
A lot of posturing and a lot of people upset over the appointments of two cabinet ministers. But is it duplicity and a sell out?

I won't attempt to justify Mr. Harper for his decisions. But being pragmatic, I can see the logic of what he did.

In the case of Emerson, he (Mr. Harper) approached Mr. Emerson to join his government and to represent the greater Vancouver area at the cabinet table. I do not know the motives of either men, but I do know that pragmatically, Mr. Harper felt he had few options in getting representation around the cabinet table from the three major cities in this country. He did what he felt was needed to have a broad based inclusive government.

Appearances can deceive, and there are risks with what Mr. Harper has done, but he is not governed by appearances, but the grim realities of cities not being representented at the cabinet table. He did the pragmatic thing. He offered Mr. Emerson an olive branch in the name of inclusiveness and non-partisan politics. Both men stand to lose in the public eye, but they were elected to conduct politics and to govern.

There is more than enough blame being attributed to Mr. Harper for this "compromise", but how many people in the cities that did not elect a single Conservative would be screaming for attention, money and influence, if Mr. Harper had not reached this compromise? How many leftists and centrists, would have screamed bloody murder, and Mr. Harper could have played hard ball, and said, "Hey, you did not vote for any of our candidates, so tough luck! You made your choice, you are now left out in the cold! Scat! Leave us alone to govern!" He could have done that, but he didn't. It is not in his nature to do that, politically or ethically. He had to find a way to be inclusive. He made a tough choice, and as PM, he has to make those tough choices in order to govern well.

Did he "sell out" on his proposed "accountability" legislation? I don't believe so.

He invited someone in from the cold, so that could represent the interests of a region that without the invitation, would be left out in the political tundra and excluded from the decision making process, devoid of influence, and devoid of attention from the Feds in Ottawa.

Criticize if you must, but you cannot judge Mr. Harper for trying to govern with the best broad based cabinet as possible. He cannot be faulted for that. The ones who are complaining the most are the ones who voted Liberal.

These same people should look long and hard in the mirror, and ask themselves why they voted that way, guaranteeing exclusion from the table where decisions are made. They (the left) called it strategic voting, I call it strategic blunder. Mr. Harper has bitten the butllet to include the people of Vancouver at the table. They should give him a break.

As far as Mr. Fortier is concerned, Mr. Harper used the latitude allocated to him under the "current" system. He has violated nothing, although he prefers an elected Senate, currently no such beast exists. For people to lambaste him for going against that principle is lacking in couth and courtesy. Mr. Harper is using the existing system to bring about as broad and inclusive cabinet as possible, and as in the case with Vancouver, Montreal needs someone from the city at the table. Mr. Harper has used the options at his disposal, and as he stated, Mr. Fortier will run for election in the next election.

We need to remember that no one really knew that the Conservatives would do as well in Quebec as they did. Some projected 2 to 4 seats, and they got 10, but none from Montreal itself, which gave Mr. Harper the same problem as Vancouver.

Mr. Harper felt the city needed representation from someone who lives in the city. He laid out the condition that the position as a senator for Mr. Fortier is a temporary one. The bottom line is the creation of a broad based coalition to govern, constituted from small c conservatives, to social conservatives, to progressive conservatives, to fiscal conservatives, to centrist former liberals.

Mr. Harper has held together the diverse CPC, and will attempt to do the same with this cabinet. He made pragmatic choices, and in my mind necessary choices to include Vancouver and Montreal.

To the ones screaming...just stop long enough to think it through and take a big breath and relax.

We don't want or need an election any time soon. We need to see Mr. Harper govern for at least two years. Having the input of the major cities at the decision table is going to be crucial. There are a lot of urban issues that will need to be addressed. Having cabinet ministers from these regions is not only the only credible thing to do, but the necessary thing to do. All these urban areas need to have a voice, be it Montreal, Toronto or Vancouver. NOW, they have a voice.

Like I said, the electorate from these cities could have had direct influence, but they chose to resist change, and chose to be dogmatic and not embrace the opportunity afforded to them election night. They could have paid the price for it by having zero influence. Mr. Harper could have paid the same price. He chose to govern, and to govern with a non-partisan cabinet, with many viewpoints and opinions, and to be inclusive of those regions that rejected him and the CPC.

The very least these people could do is hold judgment, for at least the end of the year. Then, and only then, can we all discern and see the results and the effects of this government. Let's all give Mr. Harper a break!

Cheers,
Sam

10 Comments:

  • At Thu Feb 09, 04:22:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I'm with you. The Liberals never get this kind of criticism - and while yes, they could use some, the other extreme is just as bad. Is Stephen Harper supposed to poll his supporters every time he makes a controversial decision?

    Having a government that can do whatever they want without criticism is a terrible thing. They can go through scandal after scandal and their supporters just assume its all for the greater good. Here, Stephen Harper made a decision that's legal, common and has its good side. We don't have to like it, but to oust him over it is a little extreme. Unless, of course, you want the Liberals back.

     
  • At Thu Feb 09, 04:26:00 p.m. EST, Blogger Roy Eappen said…

    Thank you Sam. That was a well thouight out article. I pretty much agree with everything you said.

     
  • At Thu Feb 09, 06:04:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    That is utterly preposterous, and its the worst sort of apology I've seen. The Cabinet is small, you don't expect to have everybody there. Nobody from Toronto is there, and they are bigger than Montreal. Tony Clement was 'close enough' there. Why the heck should Vancouver and Montreal have representatives in the cabinet? Are we to assume there is something super special and secret going on in these two places that they HAD to have representation? Is the federal government now so interested in specific cities? What are they, liberals? Virtually every city in canada has identical gripes, and you don't need a cabinet member from the place to know what those issues are. Being from a city doesn't even guarantee that you know squat about it anyway.

    If that's the case why not pick some conservative from Vancouver instead of a liberal? Consistency in arguments are a bitch eh?

    How many canadians would be clamouring 'oh no, nobody from Vancouver or Montreal is in the cabinet'. The argument above says that 'the left' would be clamouring, what, so now we have a conservative government that's going capitulate to 'the left'! If we wanted that, we would have VOTED left.

    The idea though that it was 'strategic voting' is nothing short of incredulous and I'm embarassed that those who post at such sites and so nominally have more political knowledge than most people would utter such nonsense. When you cast a ballot it is ONE vote, in ONE riding and you have no idea how anybody else is voting. You can no more block out one party from a city than you can hand pick a senator.

    If Harper had come out and said he was going to let provinces hold elections for senators canadians would be dancing in the streets, virtually every canadian supports an elected senate, even liberals and NDP. That would have made a majority government a shoe in. They would be including canadians in a way that they have never been before. Instead, he has to show Bay Street and the Canadian Council of Chief Executives that he's not going to rock the boat too much, certainly not to let the wishes of even his own party disrupt him. In other words, he's open for business.

     
  • At Thu Feb 09, 06:23:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    A year back from today, February 9,2005, we were reading how then Prime Minister Chretien did not believe it was correct to describe judge Gormery, his law firm or its personnel as "Westmount small town" as that would be an oxymoron. It was the day of the Golfball when our last PM (but one) cut the ground from under all his opponents and we all watched them hurtle down in the elevator going to nowhere.
    And now here is a new candidate for proposed hero and he has stumbled into trouble showing none of the guile or cunning we had been told he possessed, and absolutely no ability at all for the measured response. It seems somebody told him he should get one of these so did, and the fact that it was also one of those seems not to have counted. he looks to be a bigger chump than Stockwell day. Two years? Try 6 months. The liberals will have to hurry.

     
  • At Thu Feb 09, 08:34:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    dismayed: I'm not sure where you are getting your info...or how much you understand about Parliamentary Process.
    "virtually everyone supports elected Senate"... well not everyone because it has been an idea for sometime, and met alot of resistance for some time. The reason it is on the conservative platform is because of the appointments that have been made for many (liberal) years that put people in the senate for life only because they were being 'rewarded' by the PM. But to change the process will take an act of parliament in the House of Commons.We aren't there yet...it is coming, and that is why Mr. Fortier has not been given the life appointment that other Sens have. read up on it,ok?
    Also...just curious: you seem so upset about this. Did all the real Liberal corruption upset you as much? No tax dollars stolen here.Just a cabinet formed.VF

     
  • At Thu Feb 09, 10:41:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Corruption is corruption. Perhaps you see the world differently, that's your business. Virtually EVERY piece of liberal legislation and virtually every handling of every program 'upset me'. That's why I worked my ass off to reconcile the two opposition parties and during two elections so we'd finally get rid of the liberals.

    You DON"T need to change the constitution to nominate a senator. The PM can pick his mother if he wants to, he can draw the name out of a hat if he wants to. Mulroney 'nominated' an elected Senator over a decade ago. Alberta has had elections for senators for over a decade, the liberals simply ignore them. Harper could EASILY change that, and do it NOW.

    I don't know where your knowledge of parliamentary process comes from but a Prime Minister CAN"T get rid of a Senator once he's in. There is no such thing as a 'temporary' Senate appointment-to do THAT would take a change to the constitution.

    The above point is right AND wrong. Senate reform has been opposed by every POLITICAL party, because its where they stuff their friends and maintain power, and Mulroney did the same, as did tories before him, so they aren't completely off the hook.

    Go look at polls throughout the years. Support for an elected senate varies from 70-90%. It has risen steadily over the last fifty years. Even before that, when they had few polls it was still a hot issue, in fact opposition parties were talking about it the first year it was formed in 1867.

    CANADIANS have supported an elected senate, but come on, CANADIANS also unanimously wanted genetically modified foods labelled, and rejected the GST-guess what?!! In case you didn't notice, canadians only have ONE democratic function. This is 'on the agenda' because PEOPLE know that its a travesty that in a democratic country a body that can veto any bill is made up of hand picked pals of the Prime Minister. It's something out of 19th century England and is completely at odds with a democratic system of government. We bitch and belly ache against the random rulings of the supreme court for a reason-they are not elected, and answer to nobody. At least they have the bad excuse of having to serve a lifetime in the law profession. Fortier has actually been REJECTED by voters, even tories, multiple times.

    That COULD have begun to be changed, instead, Harper gives a friend a great job. Isn't that one of the reasons we hate liberals? Are you seriously going to sit there and say "when the liberals did it was patronage, but when we do it, it's 'strategy'" A more repulsive thought I can't even think of.

     
  • At Fri Feb 10, 12:14:00 p.m. EST, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Dismayed... (or is it Ms. Jamieson?) What are you trying/going to accomplish in all this? I have an EDA meeting coming up, and you bet we're going to talk about it. What are we going to do about it? I don't know yet. Do I support an elected Senate? You bet I do. Is this one step closer to it? We'll have to see.

    You make a "patronage vs. strategy" comment... look at the facts. Namely, THEIR EXPERIENCE. Most of the Libs got jobs WITHOUT MERIT, whereas Mr. Fortier IS HIGHLY QUALIFIED... when does a $1 million dollar a year banker GIVE UP HIS JOB FOR A LOW PAYING SENATE SEAT? When there's a job to do. So let him get on with it... pull your knife out of his back, wipe the blood off, and sheath it... FOR THE MOMENT. And while you're at it, give Mr. Harper a few weeks or months to get Senate reform started, since everyone is talking about it now, and will be forced to support it when he introduces it.

    Please feel free to post constructive advice and profitable debate... but if you want to rant, take it elsewhere. I WILL be deleting any "useless" comments you make from here on in.

    Let's BUILD this nation and this party, not just give the enemy more fodder for next time, eh?

    ps - if you have your own blog, please post the URL... I'd like to see where you're coming from.

     
  • At Fri Feb 10, 07:53:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    This isn't about Fortier, there's no 'knife' in his back. He was the guy nominated and doesn't enter into it.

    Nobody is 'sticking knives' in anyone's back, and frankly there's nothing that CAN be done except make noise. When that's ALL that can be done then at least THAT should be done. You blog owners have an extra responsibility in this as I'd assume that Party honchos try to keep tabs on whats happening 'in the trenches'. Conservatives have always been grassroots driven. Two conservative MLA's have already spoken up, where is THEIR support?

    All that's been done on this thread is ask questions (first post) and correct mistatements about senate selection (second post). If that is 'ranting' I'll try to keep it short and sweet, but I thought this was a blog, not a fansite. I've given liberals hell on their websites for years and I don't think I've ever been told that my rants are going to be deleted, it certainly is unfortunate to see it from my OWN party, so well we can ask about 'eating our own'. It's a blog, it's not like the Toronto Star and 'our enemies' need to be reading here to find fodder.

    PS EVERY party claims that THEIR patronage appointments have experience. It's a political post, not head of the bank of canada (where I agree having a banker would be the appropriate choice)

     
  • At Mon Feb 13, 12:49:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    OT Preacher...(it is about NDP)but a good read for those in Health Care,for every taxpayer for that matter. Seems we are still having Rae Days. According to the editorial in todays Tor. Sun...in the Rae days of the 90's the Univerity of TO was paid 10 million to produce fewer doctors...!!!???(only socialism would put out $ for zero productivity)
    For those too young to remember 'Rae days' were the days off without pay that full time health care workers were REQUIRED to have in their schedules, apparently it was calculated to save big bucks.Needless to say it was a mess.
    So all those people waiting in ER for 4-8 hours to see a doctor because they don't have a family doctor are having 'Rae Days' of a new sort!!
    Can we trust input from NDP on Health care now? Let's be careful out there!VF

     
  • At Mon Feb 13, 02:55:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    I meant for that to go under your NDP enrty...VF

     

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