Christian Conservative Christian "Independent"

I'm an evangelical Christian, member of the CPC, but presently & unjustly exiled to wander the political wilderness.
All opinions expressed here are solely my own.

Friday, December 04, 2009

Maybe I was wrong on the HST

WOW... Ontarian's are DECIDEDLY opposed to the HST, according to an Angus-Reid poll released by the Toronto Star... and the issue has brought about a complete REVERSAL of the political fortunes of Dalton McGuinty and Tim Hudak, with them swapping places in the Horserace numbers.
Key Poll Findings:
Horserace: PC’s 41%, Liberals 29%, NDP 20% and Greens at 11%

- 76% are very or moderately familiar with the HST
- 75% oppose the establishment of the HST in Ontario
- 83% believe the HST will make goods and services more expensive
- 70% say their opinion of the McGuinty government has worsened over the HST
I thought that pursing this issue too vigourously could hurt the Ontario PC's, as it would make them look impotent being unable to stop it. Looks like I was wrong on that one. It appears that McGuinty and McGuinty ALONE is wearing this one, as it doesn't appear to be even touching the Federal Tories... especially now that both the McGuinty and Iggy Liberals have got our backs on this one.

Of course, it's still a long way off until October 2011...

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  • At Fri Dec 04, 05:54:00 p.m. EST, Blogger Ardvark said…

    Help me out here. If the PST and GST are now being paid, how does combining the 2 increase costs?

    I can see how it will be easier for business to collect and deal with but do not understand the other side of the issue and the outrage.

  • At Fri Dec 04, 05:57:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Dave Hodson said…

    As much as I don't want to see the HST coming to Ontario, I'm actually glad that Harper and Ignatieff both supported the change. This is a battle that should be fought within Ontario, and I would be opposed to the Feds standing in the way of a tax reform that our provincial government, even one I don't agree with, wants to implement.

  • At Fri Dec 04, 09:56:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Cool Blue said…

    Liberal MPP Jim Brownell just announced today that he's on leave "indefinitely" due to heart problems.

    Is there a by-election if the future for the Cornwall area?

    Be interesting to see how the HST plays out.

  • At Fri Dec 04, 09:56:00 p.m. EST, Blogger The_Iceman said…

    The Iceman has opposed the HST from the start. I don't like consumption taxes. Consumption is the root of all economic activity. I would rather tax income, if that makes any sense. The whole "more competitive" theory is garbage. Ontario and BC are desperate for money and want to tax new goods. Harper does them a favour, they return the favour. Remember when Dalton defended the Tories on stimulus project approval? There had to be a tit for tat.

  • At Fri Dec 04, 11:20:00 p.m. EST, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Hey Ardvark,

    A whole range of items that were once tax exempt under one or the other tax will lose their exemptions under the combined HST, thereby increasing taxes on many items. Home heating oil is one example, and "feminine hygiene products" as another. Also many services, like haircuts and your monthly cable bill.

  • At Sat Dec 05, 02:24:00 p.m. EST, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Re: CC @ 1120:
    And some things that are taxed by the PST alone or are taxed by the PST at a higher rate than 8% will see the taxes go down. And there will be tax credits for people affected. And a drop in income taxes.

    CC: Do you believe or disbelieve anything here:

    or here:


    You haven't come out against the tax per se. On reflection, do you think it is better or worse for the province? I think that, rather than the fortunes of any particular party, should be at issue.

    I also think that McGuinty could have (but didn't) bring the opposition on board. It sounds like something that all sides could participate in, contribute to, and take credit for.

    I of course don't know if McGuinty "reached out" to Hudak.

    I get the distinct impression that the Ontario Tories are using this (and perhaps not telling the complete truth about it?) to drive down public support for McGuinty and increase support for themselves... without considering what is in the best interest of the province as a whole.

    My solution:
    - Skip or at least do not rely on "public hearings" of the traditional sort.
    - Randomly select (as one would select a jury) a sizable and representative sample of Ontarians. No more than 150 people per group. (There are complicated/boring reasons for that number).
    - Have them meet at locations across the province. (No one should have to travel too far unless absolutely necessary).
    - Compensate them: unless they are particularly wealthy, no one should make LESS money than they would at their regular job.
    - Have them look at all of the information. Start with Economics 101 seminars if need be. Have each side make its case before them (with each side able to respond to the accusations of the other). And THEN see what they decide about the tax.

    I suspect that they would approve. But if not, I would accept and respect their disapproval. Especially insofar as they would have done all of the research and thinking and deliberating that I would ideally do before making a decision myself.

    I think something similar should happen for all sorts of government programs and crown corporations. For example, the CBC seems to be disliked here. I like it, or at least like the idea of it. I'd like it more if the corporate board(s) were filled with a large number of "regular" Canadians, drafted for, say, one or two year terms.

    But I digress.


    My tax preferences differ from The Iceman's. Consumption is important. But I'm not sure if it can be "the root of all economic activity". The money to buy stuff has to come from somewhere. Ultimately, it comes from human labour.

    From a certain (abstract/idealized) point of view, to tax income is to tax what people CONTRIBUTE to society. (Think of the goods and services provided... by Farmers, Doctors, Teachers, Carpenters, etc). I'd rather tax what people TAKE from society. Especially given all of the negative externalities involved in so many goods/services...

  • At Sat Dec 05, 09:44:00 p.m. EST, Blogger Top Can said…

    I wonder how the Iceman calls himself a Libertarian when taxing income (what you earn) could be considered worse than taxing comsumption. I would rather see income taxes reduced so people would have more money in their pockets, and have higher consumption taxes to offset the loss of revenue from income taxes that the government may endure.


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