Christian Conservative Christian "Independent"

I'm an evangelical Christian, member of the CPC, but presently & unjustly exiled to wander the political wilderness.
All opinions expressed here are solely my own.

Friday, July 14, 2006

Speaking of "the left"...

I don't think (I hope) that everyone on the left thinks like this anti-Semite.
Imagine a World WITHOUT ISRAEL

Muslims, Jews, and Christians could live in peace without fear of mutual destruction.
There would be no more need for US AID or justification for Dimona.
We could bring down the Wall, send prisoners home, and families could be reunited.
We could dismantle checkpoints, open crossings, and pull down barbed wire fences.
There would be no more settlements or armed settlers because the people would be united.
We could replant trees and olive groves and rebuild battered cities.
No more suicide bombers or sniper fire, and no more dead civilians.
No more targeted killings and hell-fire missiles, or systematic demolitions.
Palestinians and Jews could live together and the world could address other issues.
What a simpler place this world would be
if there was no need for a Jewish majority - where there would otherwise be none.

Is it so hard to imagine?
Yea, it is kinda hard to imagine when YOU'RE A JEW AND MUSLIM EXTREMISTS ARE TRYING TO KILL YOU EVERY SINGLE DAY! When they openly blame you for the problems of the world, when they deny that millions of your people were murdered 60 years ago, when their democraticly elected government has called for your death!

While you're imagining, why not try and imagine yourself in their position!

h/t to SDA


NOTE: Just thought I should clarify, BEFORE I get flamed... I have NO IDEA if the author is a leftist, but I made the assumption based on the fact that the vast majority of people I've known who are anti-Israel are on the left. Carry on...

16 Comments:

  • At Fri. Jul. 14, 03:52:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    So Israel has never, ever, ever done anything to Arabs?

    Please note, I said ISRAEL not JEWS. I'm speaking of the state and it's government and military. Please don't call me a jew-hater, anti-semite, holocaust-denier or anything else just because I question Israel's political leadership and it's treatment of average Palestinians. I said AVERAGE. NOT the RPG-launching Hezbollah bastards. The dude whos trying to house his family because his house got blown to bits. Again.

    Believe me, there's plenty of blood on EVERYBODYS hands in this conflict.

     
  • At Fri. Jul. 14, 03:53:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    On an unrelated note, I dropped a couple of interesting links into your last Kyoto post...

     
  • At Fri. Jul. 14, 04:07:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    I didn't post this to condone or condemn Israel's or the Arab's actions, it was to support Israel's RIGHT TO EVEN EXIST.

    Now, sure, crimes have been committed by both sides. But for the most part, I would say I believe that Israel, many times, has shown tremendous RESTRAINT in the face of an unrelenting, and unrepentant, enemy.

     
  • At Fri. Jul. 14, 04:11:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Sorry, back to your "average joe" (or should we call him "ali"?)

    All I can say is that I feel sorry for all those caught in the middle... on both sides.

    When Hamas et. al. stops killing, and when those who killed Israelis are brought to justice, then there can be a chance at peace. I'm sure that Israel would be most accomodating to any Palestinian government who could truely stop the violence. The problem is, there has to be a WILL within the PA to end the cycle. There isn't.

     
  • At Fri. Jul. 14, 04:17:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    is it restraint, or have their actions been under-reported?

    IMHO: they deserve each other. If they're willing to fight over a miserable patch of dirt until there's not a jew or arab left in all the middle east, I say let 'em.

    I wish I could remember who said the following because it pretty much sums up my feelings:

    "When are we going to start calling this 'middle east conflict' what it really is: Middle east culture?

    Here's an article I read the other day. I think it does a good job of presenting the other side's position:

    http://salon.com/opinion/feature/2006/07/11/gaza/

     
  • At Fri. Jul. 14, 04:21:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Imagine a world without evil leftists who so easily wish to sacrifice the lives of other people so they can live comfortably, imagine.

    Ignorant leftists ignore the repeated the evil, hatred and rockets spewing from their fascist Islamic friends and blame the victims for their plight.

     
  • At Fri. Jul. 14, 04:28:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger jdave34 said…

    anonymous:

    thanks for the well-reasoned, thoughtful, logical, balanced post.

    Very well said.

     
  • At Fri. Jul. 14, 05:26:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Dirk said…

    There are plenty of left-leaning folk who are as firmly entrenched on the Israeli side of the conflict as you are.

    This is not a left vs. right issue.

     
  • At Fri. Jul. 14, 05:35:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Dirk said…

    Also...

    I'm sick to death of hearing the phrase "anti-Israel" being used to people who offer criticism to the Israeli administration for their handling of Gaza Strip/West Bank related conflict.

    As jdave says, everyone has blood on their hands. As such, they all deserve criticism -- at the least.

    You mentioned that this posting "was to support Israel's RIGHT TO EVEN EXIST". That seems to be the prevailing rhetoric justifying many of the Israeli government's more questionable actions. And as soon as criticisms are levelled against these questionable actions, the critic automatically becomes anti-Israel. I see that as dangerous thinking -- the ends shouldn't justify the means.

     
  • At Fri. Jul. 14, 05:40:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Dirk said…

    Also, also:

    Please explain to me how the "Imagine a world" piece you quoted is anti-Semitic. It's against the notion of a Jewish state, but I don't see the connection to anti-Semitism.

    For the record, I am not against Isreal, or the fact that it's a Jewish state. I just have problems with some of the state-sanctioned actions it's taken.

     
  • At Fri. Jul. 14, 06:52:00 p.m. EDT, Anonymous drew said…

    "IMHO: they deserve each other. If they're willing to fight over a miserable patch of dirt until there's not a jew or arab left in all the middle east, I say let 'em."

    Agreed. If they're so convinced that YHWH or Allah told them that the land belongs to them then let either YHWH or Allah do the fighting for them. Until then each side would do well to realize that there's lots of space in the world and nationalism doesn't do anyone any good at all.

     
  • At Sat. Jul. 15, 10:00:00 a.m. EDT, Blogger Blake said…

    Andrew, since when does anti-Zionism = anti-Semitism?

    I say that as a Zionist. But not all anti-Zionists are anti-Semites. That kind of rhetoric is just a dodge for the inevitable critiques of Zionism, which I'd like to see you attempt to respond to fairly.

     
  • At Sat. Jul. 15, 10:13:00 a.m. EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    I equated the two, in the context of this guy, because his view of getting rid of the nation itself would lead to the murder of tens of thousands of Jews. Thus, his view is anti-Semitic.

    You're right, they are seperate things, but I think most anti-Zionists are anti-Semites, they just haven't thought their agurments through to their logical conculsion... they forget to consider the murderous intentions of various factions over there before they start spouting their ideas.

     
  • At Sat. Jul. 15, 10:33:00 a.m. EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    Sorry, that should have read "murderous, homicidal and suicidal intentions of various factions", just to be clear. (I'd put a little wink there, to show I'm trying to be funny, but I don't know if it fits when talking about such a horrible issue)

    Calling for the nation to be removed leads itself to several questions... where would you like the Jews to go? Do you plan to personally protect them, once their ability to protect themselves is gone?

    Those who say "Israel should have never been created in the first place" have a different question to answer... Where should they, the disposessed and unwanted refugees of WWII, the Jews, have gone? They tried several nations, NO ONE WAS WILLING TO TAKE THEM IN. So Israel was created TO OUR SHAME, because none of our former leaders stepped up to the plate to care for the Jews.

    Anyone who holds that second view should be ashamed of themselves, IMO.

    Thus, I often do equate anti-Zionism with anti-Semetism, because I've never seen anyone who advocates anti-Zionism adaquately address those questions.

     
  • At Mon. Jul. 17, 01:04:00 a.m. EDT, Blogger Blake said…

    "I equated the two, in the context of this guy, because his view of getting rid of the nation itself would lead to the murder of tens of thousands of Jews. Thus, his view is anti-Semitic."

    He is anti-Semitic when he presents a vision (idealistic and unattainable as it may be) of Jews and Arabs living alongside each other in peace and mutual respect? That's anti-Semitism?!? Well, then I guess I'm an anti-Semite too.

    "You're right, they are seperate things, but I think most anti-Zionists are anti-Semites, they just haven't thought their agurments through to their logical conculsion... they forget to consider the murderous intentions of various factions over there before they start spouting their ideas."

    Which they would not excuse, but would also point out that a lot of these feelings are provoked just by the existance of Israel. It is argued, if Israel did not exist, that hostility would also not exist. It should be pointed out that the creation of Israel obviously did cause a lot of problems and provoke a lot of harsh feelings in the Arabs in that area. As unreliable a historical document as it may be, T.E. Lawrence grumbled about the lack of Jewish support for Arab independence during WWI. Not surprisingly, really, that Arabs seems to have not forgotten that slight.

    Again, to be clear, I am a Zionist. But just because you think that Jews will be murdered if the nation of Israel ceases to exist does not mean a) it will, b) that even if it might be a possibility that those who disagree i) think it will ii) want that to happen. So calling them murderous, etc. is the height of absurdity. It's kind of like saying that the government wants people to go to hell because they allow alcohol to be sold and the Bible says that no drunkard shall inherit the kingdom of God. Kind of a non sequitur and certainly unfair argumentation.

     
  • At Thu. Aug. 03, 07:51:00 p.m. EDT, Blogger Christian Conservative said…

    NOTICE: Someone posted a very defamatory comment here regarding Islam... for the sake of civility, I have removed it. (I have not read all of it, but it's not something I want posted here) My appologies to anyone who read it before I could remove it.

    Notice to the author of it... I still have it in archives, just in case I need to pull it out.

    ps - I have a screen capture of your ISP info... please don't come back. I will report you.

     

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